Expelled Yale Player Says Decision Was Unfair and Excessive

Mar 15, 2016 · 325 comments
ST (Washington state)
Seriously? All of these comments bemoaning how this guy's life is ruined? Yowling about kangaroo courts? Listen. Yale is a private organization that gets to decide who stays in that organization. And thanks to our culture that values athletic achievement over moral character, intellectual integrity, and sportsmanlife behavior, no university wants to lose a star player on the eve of the NCAA tournament. For Yale to expel this player says to me that his conduct was beyond a shadow of a doubt unacceptable.

My own alma mater, a Division III college, goes to great lengths to protect its athletes from expulsion and other discipline for various violations of the honor code (which is how it classifies student misconduct towards other students, including sexual assault). It is even less likely that a Division I university would make the decision to expel lightly.

This man and his family chose to make this public statement and to associate his name publicly with this situation. The university, on the other hand, is abiding by its confidentiality policy. But you can bet that everyone on campus knows the victim's name and is busily smearing her reputation just the way the commenters in this section would like to.

Victim shaming in this country is real. You just have to read the comments in this section to understand why so few rapes are reported.
G (Glens Falls NY)
Any notion that sexual assault can be condoned in si inexcusable. However, in our propensity to be a rush-to-judgment society, fueled by instant access to information that isn't always subject to verification (see the recent U of Albany bus situation) we are quick to affix guilt or innocence to hot button topics because they make make an unpleasant event easier to understand even if it is much more than complex than meets the eye
Altabum (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Lots of comments defending the young man and not so many for the young woman. Just like the real legal system in the good ol' USA!
behonest (New York)
Title lX means No Due Process. The 14th amendment rights of an individual are NOT acknowledged in the kangaroo court on any college campus.. On what proof is this young man and so many other young men charged??? A young, disappointed women makes a charge of assault and this is PROOF?? I am reminded of Arthur Millers, The Crucible when John Proctor says " Is the accuser always holy now? Were they born this morning as clean as God's fingers? I'll tell you what's walking in Salem-vengeance is walking Salem. We are what we always were in Salem, but now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom and common vengeance writes the law!"(Act ll)
Rods_n_Cones (Florida)
I think this is starting to look like the time when many people were being punished for abuse when it became popular for people to remember forgotten episodes of child-abuse. These "suppressed memories" were recovered by going through therapy with someone who really, really wanted to find a suppressed memory.

I think that we are starting to see this in recent rape cases that come to light after a relationship breaks up. Is it possible that ordinary, perhaps less than perfect, men are having their lives ruined because someone is helping the victim see ordinary sexual interaction as abuse? I've witnessed on several occasions women analyzing a sexual interaction to see if they could find a way to frame it as non-consensual. Usually the goal is only to man-bash an ex-boyfriend but I could see how it could culminate in what happened here. That would explain why it took so long to be reported, the memory had to be molded into something different.

Rape is a heinous crime that needs to be punished but these type of cases that are open-to-interpretation do not help.
Jon02452 (<br/>)
The criminal justice system sees things in right or wrong, and has very little flexibility to tailor the "punishment" to fit the actual interpersonal relationships. The facts are forced into the constraints imposed by the law regardless of fit. Yale's system may not have been perfect, but it was undoubtedly better than using the criminal justice system.

Having said that, expulsion is an admission by Yale that it failed. When it admitted Montague, it made a decision that both educationally and personally, he was suitable to be a member of the Yale community. Then this incident occurs. Expulsion seems like an easy way out.

To be clear, I don't question the decision that Montague did something that required "punishment." While there may well have been a dispute over the "facts", that was for the decision maker (Judge, Jury or Yale panel) to decide, and one party will often disagree. Nothing has suggested that Yale process was unfair.

Personally, I would have started with a suspension through the current term, with a requirement that he engage in community service as well as counseling as a prerequisite for considering whether to allow him to rejoin the community. The issue could then be revisited periodically (ahead of each new semester), balancing the desire to have the victim feel safe and comfortable on campus since she did nothing to contribute to the last encounter, with Montague's response through counseling and community service.
APS (WA)
Acquaintance rape is difficult to prosecute to criminal sanctions but under less stringent criteria can be shown to be a violation of campus standards disqualifying someone from participating on that campus. So a case that would never merit input from prosecutors can still involve administrative sanctions from a selected private community.
Antel Lopez (Plains, North Dakota)
I have a son of college age who just received a letter inviting him to apply to Yale based on his academic and extracurricular merit. Based on this episode, I have discouraged him from applying to Yale. It seems a hostile environment for young males. Their pursuit of 100% compliance with title IX as extrapolated to sexual encounters between males and females, will inevitably result in the ruining of innocent male futures. The pursuit of equality between males and females has resulted in the burden of proof been placed on the male accused. It is almost impossible to prove a negative -- i.e. I didn't do it.
Kathleen Parr (Portland, Maine)
The pendulum has swung so far toward ludicrous and retroactive overreaction that I'm afraid that we'll end right back not believing victims. It's a bit of a leap, but this lack of logic and overabundance of PC caution is why Donald Trump is winning.
the dogfather (danville ca)
Is this where we only get to speculate and share our preconceptions? Or might there be space for a comment that suggests that we all reserve judgment?

Nah -- probably not. But I certainly don't trust the dueling flakkage in these comments, to-date.
Donna Gray (Louisa, Va)
Why weren't the police called so a real investigation could occur? It wasn't too long ago that the Catholic church was also allowed to internally deal with accusations of sexual abuse. Decisions were made in private and punishment rarely fitted the crime! Now no one would allow that! Universities need the same treatment! This is a criminal matter that should be handled by the legal system, not an academic one!
George Mandeville (Rochester, New York)
The Yale spokesman tells us that one in ten cases culminate in expulsion, while one in five result in no adverse action and two in five result in reprimand or probation. This leaves three in ten cases unaccounted for. What befalls the accused in these cases, a severe thrashing, summary execution, mandatory enrollment in math class?
DocShott (Seattle)
The young man in question wasn't "found guilty of rape". He wasn't tried in a court. He apparently violated the students' code of conduct and the college felt the nature of his behavior was so egregious that it warranted expulsion. All we know is that was expelled. We have no idea if this is a "he said, she said" situation despite his lawyer claiming it to be true.
saluki17 (Canton)
I am reading through these comments, and I am confused at the vast number of people who don't understand why the University is involved in sanctions, and that this should have been handled through the municipal criminal process. Yale didn't sentence him to jail time, parole, etc. There is nothing going on his record from a legal standpoint. Yale is a private institution and is simply handling things from a campus-perspective. If he wasn't a good basketball player, we wouldn't even be hearing about this. If the victim in question wanted to press criminal charges she could, and still could. And if she did, and he was found guilty, that wouldn't mean that Yale would be required to expel him at that point. Do people not understand the differences?
Cowboy Marine (Colorado Trails)
In many respects, once a student enrolls and sets foot on the campus of a private school, whether a kindergarten or college, the Constitution no longer applies and one's rights are limited in terms of penalties, suspensions, expulsions, etc. So if a student is judged by officials of such a private entity to have not followed its published code of conduct, all the lawyering in the world won't matter I don't believe. Of course the victim of a crime can always pursue a case in civil or criminal court outside the purview of the private entity, but in cases like these, often does not want to go through all that.
Claude Crider (Georgia)
"...through a public relations firm..." ??

Seriously? This is his 4th offense. The victims are affected for life and the men usually get a 2 week suspension.

Here's a helpful item in understanding this overall issue...
http://www.cnn.com/shows/the-hunting-ground

These are predators. 5% of the men are responsible for 90% of the sexual assaults. They understand the procedure. They use their popularity as a tool. Ask the girl to walk to a secluded location and after that it's just she said vs he said.

Because they are heroes on campus, They look at the women at their college like a buffet. Do we just let this continue?
Joe (Naples, NY)
I don't know the facts of this case. No one does. But if this was a rape it should be handled by the police and professionals. I cannot understand how a school committee can decide on rape and take actions while the legal authority takes none.
Yalie In midlife (Minnesota)
Most of the commentators here show little if any familiarity with how sexual assault charges are typically handled on college campuses,

The schools want to handle things in a private and quiet manner, not so much for the benefit of the victims or the accused, but because police records are public and such information might be bad PR.

Also, the percentage of rape cases or complaints that result in the accused being expelled is so low -- somewhere in the low teens or single digits -- that the result says a lot about the strength of the complaint and the preponderance of evidence.

Given this, I am less inclined to worry about young men having their lives ruined by vindictive women and meetings behind closed doors, and more concerned about all the bright young women who are quietly having to put there lives back together after an assault with little chance of ever seeing anything remotely resembling justice.
WakeUp (NJ)
So she has sex 3 times, shows up for a 4th, takes off her clothes, hops in bed, and then is offended that he thought she was there to have sex. Why do we equate this with women who are grabbed on the street or coerced by their boss or incapacitated with alcohol or battered by their husbands? Does Yale not provide beds for its students? Can they not afford pajamas?

Among this crowd, a detached one-night-stand or having numerous casual partners is no longer taboo, making the mantra that women don't lie about rape absurd. What makes lying about rape off limits once the stigma against casual sex has been removed?

I fear we are trying to apply old standards to a generation we don't understand. Did we intend our indignation against rape be used like a parking ticket, because there are now women who think this way. A Swarthmore student allows an old boyfriend to sleep in her bed. He attempts to initiate sex. She says no, but he continues to pester. Finally, she gives in. The choice was to lose some sleep by ordering him back to his own room or allowing him to have sex. She chose to have sex and then file charges in the morning.

He may be a boor, but was he a rapist? Is this the kind of violation we set out to punish when we made rape a felony? Maybe charges of sexual assault should continue to be handled by the courts alone, and these other violations (that would never hold up in court) should be given a new name and new penalties that better fit the seriousness of the violation.
S B Lewis (Lewis Family Farm, Essex, New York)
Yale looks terrible. What's true? This one recalls a St. Paul's School story. A senior was prosecuted criminally for his role in what that culture calls 'senior salute' in an event on a rooftop. The boy accused was scheduled to enter Harvard. His partner, 15, encouraged him. He now has a criminal record, is marked for life and she remains at the school.

There are two sides to every story. Truth is impossible to determine. In Yale's case, there is evidence that suggests encouragement and far more.

When a court is used and the press is active, as in the St. Paul's School case, it is a media event. Justice is not found with media involvement.

A reporter reporting such an event should be questioned. Horrible though it might be, any experience that might condition the reporter to report with feeling that is personal should be disclosed in print. The press has huge power in such matters.

The bench and prosecutor should be obliged to disclose any such experience that might influence. On the record.

Personal bias influences deeply in matters of sex. The child raped cannot report on the adult raped without feeling. The adult raped, the same. Rape in the family will influence. Threat of rape or touch would be enough.

Those with a personal experience on point, even being ignored or threatened, will have feeling that may influence the outcome.

Those judged can be misjudged by those with a personal bias created by a personal experience. This is the case with every sex case.
Tom B (Lady Lake, Florida)
America is a pretty awful place now. This college stuff is just a small part of the mess we are in.
behonest (New York)
Since when did regret become synonomous with rape? Title lX means No Due Process. On what proof is this young man and so many other young men charged??? A young, disappointed women makes a charge of assault and this is PROOF?? I am reminded of The Crucible when John Proctor says " Is the accuser always holy now? Were they born this morning as clean as God's fingers? I'll tell you what's walking in Salem-vengeance is walking Salem. We are what we always were in Salem, but now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom and common vengeance writes the law!"(Act ll)
Peter Blau (NY Metro)
The fact that "just 1 in 10" of these kangaroo court tribunals results in an expulsion is immaterial to the facts of any one particular case. Perhaps in THIS case the determining factor was that the complainant's family are particular wealthy donors? Or one of the parents is an incredibly aggressive trial lawyer who threatened to embroil the university in endless litigation? Since there is zero transparency, one will never know. The Constitution calls for open, public trials for a reason.
bharmonbriggs (new hampshire)
The article says: "(Conroy) also said that the accused was permitted legal representation throughout the process and that just one in 10 cases culminated in expulsion, while one in five resulted in no adverse finding and two in five resulted in a reprimand or probation." If we make everything an X out of 10 definition: 1 in 10 lead to expulsion, 2 in 10 come to nothing, 4 in 10 lead to something less than expulsion. Depending on the results of the missing 3 in 10, either 50 percent of all cases result in some sort of punishment or 80 percent of all cases result in some sort of punishment. Seems high.
delta blues (nj)
I do not have much to add here except to point out that our sports fanaticism may obscure a search for the truth here. That the alleged perpetrator is a star athlete should be irrelevant to judgment and even our interest here. The rights to which he is entitled, as well as society's and the alleged victim's, deserve no less.
Rods_n_Cones (Florida)
The man in the Columbia mattress-girl incident was cleared of wrongdoing by the university, yet the university allowed mattress-girl to publicly shame him with her "project." So if a group within a university can decide to support one side why can't a group decide to support the other side. In this case the team was forced to apologize for supporting Montague.
HGuy (<br/>)
I hope I'm not turning into an old fogey, but you'd think someone attending one of the most academically rigorous colleges in the world plus being on an intermural team plus being its captain should/would be too busy (at least during the season, anyway) for such shenanigans.
EndlessWar (Don&#39;t Fall For It)
Remember the Central Park jogger case? Five young men accused, convicted, sentenced for rape. All were freed 13 years later because the didn't actually do it.

Remember the Duke Lacrosse case? Four young men accused and investigated. The coach fired, the season canceled. All were exonerated 13 months later. No charges against the accuser. It set the tone for campus rape.

Remember Tawana Brawley? Cops accused of horrible crimes against a young woman. Turns out she made the whole thing up with the support of Al Sharpton and Alton Mattox. It set the tone for how the public viewed the cops.

Remember the recent Rolling Stone article? The accused rapist did not exist except in the mind of the attention-seeking woman. But it set the tone we see right now.

Remember the NYT article about the HWS student? The girl never went to the police, but they investigated anyhow. No evidence, no witnesses, no prosecution. Still the NYT published the story. It furthered the tone from Duke and Rolling Stone.

There was another HWS incident several years ago. No criminal charges against the boy, but he still got tainted and it set a precedent.

Remember the Vassar boy expelled for a supposed incident that took 18 months for the girl to bring up to the school (not the cops)? Texts and e-mails between the two show that they had a friendly relationship for over a YEAR after the event.

Rape is a crime. Call a cop. Campus boards are not cops. Neither are they courts of law.
James Currin (Stamford, CT)
The information, all of it readily available, that Marc Tracy chooses to leave out of his article is much more significant than what he has chosen to put in it. These kangaroo courts are the direct result of a notorious letter, "Dear Colleague", sent to all colleges in the country by the Civil Rights division of the Dept. of Education, under Title IX. It specifies that verdicts of panels, who have no legal training, shall be governed by "preponderance of evidence" rather than by reasonable doubt, as in criminal trials. The accusant may not be represented by counsel at the hearing nor may he cross-examine the accuser. This young man has effectively had his life ruined, by procedures that are utterly unacceptable in a nation of laws. It is nothing short of journalistic malpractice for the Times to omit crucial information about what led this to happen.
On a brighter side, this travesty may serve as a warning to college men of the risks they incur by forming sexual liaisons with unstable and very often vindictive college women.
Alex (Indiana)
It’s very likely that only the two individuals directly involved are the only ones who know what really happened. That’s usually the case when rape is alleged and the determining factor is whether or not consent was freely given.

What is clear is that the standard of the “preponderance of the evidence (POE)”, in which 50.1% of the evidence is sufficient to find the accused guilty, is grossly inappropriate, especially when the allegations, and the punishment, are as serious as they are here.

A student found guilty of rape by a campus tribunal is punished harshly. Expulsion means that 4 years of one’s life and perhaps a quarter of a million dollars are for naught; worse, there is the lifetime sigma associated with a heinous crime.

Perhaps Mr. Montigue received a fair hearing, but Yale is one of the most politically correct places on the planet, so perhaps not.

Rape is a very serious crime. The place to adjudicate guilty is a court of law, not a campus tribunal at a place like Yale. And the standard of guilt must not be the low bar of POE, as now mandated by the Department of Education.

A few days ago I read in these pages about a man who spent 24 years in jail for a crime he did not commit. It was a travesty.

Campus tribunals applying the POE standard will likely lead to more miscarriages of justice. The guilty should be punished, but the accused are entitled to due process and a fair hearing, which is not the case with campus panels and DOE mandated rules.
H (Houston)
As a Yale alum, I can attest to the clandestine character of the university's judicial process. I was placed on disciplinary probation by a committee that refused to reveal the logic of their decision, and that seemingly appointed its members not for their prudence or well-documented judgment, but for how closely they satisfied the department's "tradition of behavior." One student even appealed his verdict, but when it was taken to the School of Medicine, his department threatened to secede from their partnership. A travesty, indeed.
Elizabeth (salt spring)
why can this issue of sexual assault, which if true is a crime as far as I know, at least in Canada it is, how can this be settled without the involvement of law enforcement (if the students choose)?
josh (San Bernardino)
Someone got raped. Or someone got expelled for no cause. A tragedy whichever way you slice it.

I do believe that universities have a fundamental conflict of interest when they investigate allegations against one of their own students. My advice for victims is: go to the cops FIRST. They are trained in this sort of stuff. Mr or Ms Big Time College Administrator is not. Not even close. They just want to make the problem go away with as little publicity as possible.
Bill (Des Moines)
I don't know what to believe in this one. I certainly don't trust places like Yale - remember Duke Lacrosse...
Brooklyn Traveler (Brooklyn)
That wasn't Duke. That was the local prosecutor who was looking for press to enhance his electability in a minority community and violated all kinds of protocol and wound up disbarred. There are dozens of examples of opportunistic prosecutors and journalists sacrificing the truth to advance their careers or agendas.

This is a very screwed up system. Rape victims are humiliated and discouraged from coming forward; those accused of rape are presumed guilty when someone does come forward - even if the evidence is inconclusive.

Courts and tribunals like the one at Yale shield the identities of accusers or even the whole process - reinforcing that rape is a crime worthy of humiliation....but also, failing to allow an accused person a proper defense in a public forum.

Punishing the falsely accused is no more righteous than not treating victims with respect and dignity.
Andrew Kahr (Cebu)
You just have to bear in mind that the President who "masterminded" the Duke scandal, Brodhead, went to that job straight from having been a Dean at Yale.

Duke should have fired him.
Monica (DC)
Oh, you mean the Duke lacrosse team that was erroneously accused of raping a woman? That team? The case where the DA ended up disbarred and jailed for his actions during the 'investigation'? So just what are you implying here? The whole story of what occurred at Yale is not out in the public so let's not make the same mistake that was made in the case of the Duke lacrosse team....at least not compare Yale to Duke here, please.
michjas (Phoenix)
Too few women come forward to charge rape and the conviction rate is too low. I think our views on rape are a big part of the problem. People often say that rape and murder are the most serious crimes. I don't buy it. Rape is an assault and battery in a sexual context. It's getting beat up sexually. Assault and battery is a crime of middling significance. But for our emotional excesses when it comes to sexual matters, rape, too, would be a middling crime, more women would come forward, and there would be more convictions and more justice.
Zarohla (NJ)
If they believe he committed rape why weren't the police called in? Why are colleges involved in criminal matters such as investigating rape? If the only evidence is he said/ she said with evidence she contacted him voluntarily afterwards why was he expelled? I hope he sues Yale and wins.
Ed (Princeton)
Expelled - a rare form of punishment for the many cases of sexual assault that are brought each year before an Ivy League disciplinary committee. That verdict leaves little room for doubt. What the committee saw and heard must have been convincing. But it does nothing to mollify basketball fans who think it's their right to re-adjudicate the case in the court of public opinion - far away from any actual testimony or evidence. Yale should not give in to this kind of outside pressure.
Martin Blank (Nashville)
By your logic, the severity of the death penalty must mean that everyone ever condemned to die must surely have been guilty and we should never question what the prosecution said. It is demonstrably flawed logic.
George (Washington)
I'm not a basketball fan, and as a graduate of Harvard, I'm no fan of Yale. What I am, however, is a lawyer that knows better than to assume that the rarity of the sentence is grounds for trusting the system that renders the verdict. Every case must be weighed on its own merit and a charge as serious as this one requires a criminal trial in open court. We are living in a time where "outside pressure" in the form of bad publicity from a sensationalized rape case (Duke Lacrosse, Rolling Stone Articles) outweighs the outrage of sports fans.
SteveRR (CA)
I understand that the Yale disciplinary committee is in the process of trying a murder allegation - expulsions for that one seems pretty sure as well.

Schools should not hear nor try criminal allegations - ever.
Ivystudent (RI)
There have been a lot of comments suggesting that colleges shouldn't have the ability to rule in sexual assault cases involving their students; however, the reality is that for many students who survived sexual assault, criminal court cannot offer them the help they need. Court cases take much longer than those conducted by a university. In the mean time, a survivor often is forced to live in the same buildings as their attackers, and may face further trauma or abuse during daily run-ins likely on campus. In such cases, the girl often will be unable to remain in school waiting for lengthy proceedings, furthering affecting their futures. University cases do not rule out court proceeding, rather they offer an extra support system, complete with advocates both for the accused and accuser, as well as ways to monitor contact and keep both parties comfortable on campus while decisions can be reached. A university does not have the power to jail someone. They do however have the ability to rule on who is a danger to the general student population on campus. As this article states only 1 in 10 students tried are suspended, after inquiries giving both students the ability to be heard by title ix reps, advocates, deans, and students. This women has chosen, like many who cannot pause their education during the time leading up to a criminal trial, has simply trusted the university to secure her security on campus.
uwr (Seattle)
Actually, the article states that 1/10 result in expulsion (not suspension, as you write): "one in 10 cases culminated in expulsion, while one in five resulted in no adverse finding and two in five resulted in a reprimand or probation." So: 10% expelled, 40% reprimand or probation, and 20% no adverse finding. How about the other 30%? I bet those are the ones who are suspended.
Ryan Bingham (Up there)
Well the court system is going to award an amount to this man that will make colleges drop any pretense of judicial rights.
USAForever (USA)
If rape was reported to the police (as it should be) and the police found probable cause, an arrest would be made. The school could then suspend the student pending the outcome in court and, in the meantime, the campus would be safe for the victim. This is how it should work, period.
Joel (Santa Cruz, CA)
Why? Why are Yale Police involved? Why, please explain, somehow please explain to me why Yale Police are involved in the investigation of criminal activity? Shouldn't the New Haven Police Department be the investigating unit?
I just don't get it?
Cliff (NYC)
Why do you think the Yale Police are involved? The article clearly states that the student was expelled based on a decision by a Yale Committee on Sexual Misconduct. No criminal proceedings have occurred. Further, the Yale Police are, well, police, with full arrest powers and investigative authority. Thus, if criminal charges were filed, it would be entirely appropriate for the Yale Police to be involved.
JenD (NJ)
"If the students choose, the matter can also be settled without the involvement of law enforcement." WHY? Why are these cases not turned over to the police? Why is anyone at a university deciding guilt or innocence and meting out punishment for actions that, if true, are a serious crime?
drspock (New York)
Yale has its own rules and standards of conduct, as does every university or for that matter every large corporation. Sometimes the violation of those rules also violates our criminal or civil legal code, but sometimes it doesn't. An alleged victim has the right to choose the university process over the criminal process just as one might sue in civil court for an assault instead of filing criminal charges. The alleged victim always has the option to change their mind and pursue criminal charges. However, if the university procedure is already underway and witnesses have given testimony this might make a criminal prosecution nearly impossible. So alleged victims need to be properly counseled and choose carefully.

The one fact from this case that stands out in my mind is the length of time between the incident and the complaint. But there is obviously much information that cannot be reported that weighed in the university's decision and verdict. One has to assume that given the gravity of this charge that they proceeded very carefully with both party's rights in mind.
John Burke (NYC)
This is another case of campus kangaroo courts ruining the lives of young men who have what any sane person would regard as consensual sex with another adult -- in the name of stamping out a phantom "rape culture." Yet another sign of how the administrations and faculties of colleges like Yale are totally out of touch with reality. Shades of Cotton Mather.
Bruce (New York)
of course you, unlike everyone else, have all the facts...
shaggy (Hudson, NY)
This is a very serious charge and accusation. If a sexual assault or rape occurred, Yale should refer it to the criminal justice authorities. If he is found guilty, he should be, among other things, obviously expelled. If not, he should be exonerated by the courts, continue to attend Yale, and be able to proceed with his life.
Kathy (Virginia)
How is it even legal that a university can "investigate" such a serious crime accusation as rape? Cases such as these need to be settled in courts of law not board rooms.

There are other institutions, including the Catholic Church, that are now required to report crimes directly to law enforcement, which in most instances are more equipped than schools to handle the investigation of crimes and accusations of crimes. This whole notion of "in house" investigation of serious accusations leaves accusers and accused open to the whim of non-professional law enforcement. Should they be plaintiffs and defendant, each would benefit from the rule of law which applies to every part of the US which lies outside the protective walls of the university.
Kevin (Ann Arbor, MI)
The reason that the University is involved and not the police is that the level of interaction reached the standard of evidence needed to violate the student code of conduct, and not necessarily any common laws. Those two things are very different, and that is why he is only expelled and not spending decades behind bars.
David S. Hodes, MD (Dobbs Ferry, NY)
There was a time when the concept of rape was fairly straightforward: a man's imposing sexual relations on a woman by means of physical force or threat. In this age of consent, however, where the arbiter of our sexual morality is Hugh Hefner rather than Jonathan Edwards, this concept has become muddled.
James Currin (Stamford, CT)
Don't forget Donald Trump!
FG (Houston, TX)
Maybe it's a coincidence that this article was written the day after the release of the ESPN 30-30 depicting the Duke Lacrosse story from a decade ago. It's amazing to see all the same demagogues' take sides below in much the same way. It's almost of mirror of the Duke situation but on a smaller scale. None of us know what happened here. The issue between this young man and woman is just that....an individual case that should be evaluated on the physical evidence. No University should pretend to be able to replace or subordinate the rule of law. Duke, The City of Durham, and the State of NC learned a very painful and expensive lesson in the Lacrosse team case.

Save your individual agenda for cases with clear facts and stop trying to right wrongs, perceived or otherwise, on the back of the next case down the line. If this thing backfires on this young lady and Yale, you will only have hurt the cause of future legitimate victims subjected to this heinous crime.
G. Leaks (New York City)
I am a graduate of another Ivy League school where there has been at least two similar cases in the last 6 years. The circumstances are not at all clear here but it would be interesting to know where the "bones" are buried: Are there other cases pending on campus and the expulsion was done to quell the fervor? Who is the woman and is she connected to a large donor or powerful alumnus? Believe me, in the Ivy League, these are important questions.
marianne kelly (monterey, ca)
That was my first thought. Who is the accuser connected to financially? From information still on-line, Montague's father is an electrical contractor from Tennessee. Montague worked summers in his father's business and appeared to belong to a conservative Christian organization. This reminds me of the St. Paul prep school case where the boy was a scholarship student and the girl was the daughter of a CEO.
Jonathan (Amherst)
I just want to remind folks that you have just read the account of the lawyer hired to defend Montague, so if you currently believe that Yale is full of "kangaroo courts" and insane man-hating radicals, than the lawyer has done his job.

I am a Yale student who has heard far more of the rumors floating around campus than most people who read this article have. Of course they are just rumors, and some of them are likely not true. However, the people involved in this case are not idiots and I can assure you that they did not make their decision based solely on the evidence quoted in this article. There are plenty of pieces of evidence that I have heard that completely change the way I view this case, and I imagine that committee that made this decision heard some of these as well.

Yale expels almost no one on grounds of sexual misconduct. Before crying out for more evidence, please consider the fact that it may exist, and that Yale probably made its decision on very sound evidence. Proclaiming Montague innocent without caring to hear the whole story is, in my opinion, almost as bad (because it may put more people in real, physical danger) as proclaiming him guilty based on the admittedly terrible evidence presented in this article.

The Yale administration probably cares more than anybody about winning basketball games, because of what it can do for the school's reputation. I promise you they do not expel the captain of a winning basketball lightly.
Terrie (<br/>)
Thanks for your insight. It does make me think of the Montague's teammates though: they must have the same information that you do and yet they have come to different conclusions by continuing to support him.
The best of these situations have only a "he said, she said" quality to them and that makes deciding who to believe very difficult. Clearly there is more evidence than has been made public either through traditional channels or the rumor mill.
Jess (<br/>)
Thank you, Jonathan. You're right; as a current student you know more about this than most of us. Thank you for the additional perspective. It's the best counter I can think of to the unfortunate knee-jerk reactions that most of these commenters have.
James Currin (Stamford, CT)
Your comment, based on nothing but scuttlebutt, is the very reason that judges in real criminal trials take great pains to exclude jurors who may have been influenced by it
Robert Dana (11937)
Anyone know if the victim has signed an endorsement deal with a mattress manufacturer yet?
Elizabeth (salt spring)
are you kidding......
ehn (Eastern Shore of Maryland)
No but the guy's lawyer has signed up with a PR firm.
Jonathan Katz (St. Louis)
There is a good reason why real criminal trials are public.

This kangaroo court works behind a veil of secrecy: it must have something to hide.

If a crime was committed (rape is a crime just below murder), it should be properly prosecuted in the real courts. If the accused is guilty, he goes to jail for many years. If innocent, he goes free. There is no half-way: "We cannot prove you are guilty, but you might be, so we'll impose a smaller penalty" (the only penalty a private organization can impose).
Kevin (Boston)
We clearly don't have enough details to form a judgment of guilt or innocence, but as many comments note, a draconian action has been taken against this young man and his reputation. That a university can do this with minimal legal due process is both frightening and sad. Reminiscent of Duke's actions in 2006.
Awonder (New Jersey)
Colleges have to make rapid decisions in cases like this, based on preponderance of evidence, owing to a ruling by Obama's Department of Education, or lose federal funding. The change has to start with a change in that government-mandated edict. Big brother at work, once again
chris b (nyc)
Hence, President Obama is blamed for the Montague expulsion, just as he is for just about anything else, such as Palin's son's domestic abuse difficulties. Predictable.
Ron Halpern (Laguna Niguel, CA)
One thing people seem to forget; attending a school like Yale is not a right but rather a privilege. Yale is not USC or Oklahoma, where kids get a wink, bail money and keep their scholarship. Yale has the temerity to believe that it is actually an academic institution not merely a minor league for wanna be pro athlete thugs.
James Currin (Stamford, CT)
When I attended the University of Oklahoma, men were not allowed in women's residences after 10PM and women in men's residences except during social occasions. Yale like everywhere else has long ago dispensed with parietal rules and is reaping the whirlwind. Yes, Yale is not USC or Oklahoma, but it is also no longer Yale.
Hoover (Union Square)
"Preponderance of the evidence" standard + PC assumption that rape accusers are always truthful + glorification of victims + trials run by incompetent deans = recipe for disaster.
arbitrot (Paris)
This is simple.

Does Yale put peace with the feminists above possibly sneaking through the first round of the NCAA tournament?

C'mon, this is an easy decision for the Yale administration.

Even if it turned out that the 4th -- that's fourth -- time was not a charm.
Jonathan (Amherst)
What? I haven't heard anyone bigoted enough to say explicitly that they believe that basketball is more important than the safety of women on campus. I don't even know how to respond.
Jess (<br/>)
So, just to be clear, you don't think it's possible to rape someone if you've had sex with them before? Or to put it another way, by your reasoning saying yes once invalidates the right to say no? I just want to be clear that you're effectively taking us back to the days when people used to say it was impossible for a husband to rape his wife. Hello, dinosaur!
Peter Billionaire (Kansas City)
It doesn't matter that they already had sex three times or 300 times. The 301 incident could be rape. Why did she return to his room later that night? Perhaps she has bad judgment. It could still be rape.
Robert Dana (11937)
How about 3,000 times, 30,000 times? Same answer? These absolutist statements are absurd. Surely, there's a difference between total strangers and a couple who have had relations.

The fact of prior relations does not mean that there can be no rape. But, it doesn't mean the mere assertion by the woman means there was. The inquiry is necessarily hugely factually intensive.

I hope you don't have a job were you make important judgements. Jeez.
katieatl (Georgia)
In your alternate universe it could still be rape if the accuser went back to cuddle later that same (4th) night but it's highly doubtful a prosecutor would ever take that case. Were a prosecutor to decide to take such a case, it's highly doubtful a jury would convict. That's why universities need their star chambers. They're dealing with claims that in many cases would not pass the smell test in a State's Attorney's office.

So, young men who may or may not be guilty of anything, much less rape, are "convicted" on the de minimus preponderance of the evidence standard and their reputations/job prospects are forever smeared in the age of google searches. As a parent of sons as well as daughters, I think this system is rotten to the core.
George (Washington)
No. It would not be "bad judgement", it would be completely unreasonable and grounds for immediate dismissal in any court.

Assuming we take your view of things, how would it ever be possible to prove guilt?
Cheryl (<br/>)
So while Yale has the right to enforce whatever rules of conduct are in existence for it's students -- and for all I know, it was some other misconduct, not defined as rape, that this young man was held accountable for. If in fact the allegation was rape, WHY was this matter not sent to the police who are responsible for criminal investigations -- and have people trained to do this. It is arrogant for the university to act as if it has its own little Vatican City, with secret rules. It seems a dangerous way to do business as well -- it opens the door for later lawsuits from either victims or accused. Yes, it is extremely difficult for rape victims to go through this -- so provide support. And as someone who understands this - I still find it distressing that innuendo and rumor are used against the accused perpetrator, in such a way as to make it impossible to refute allegations. Basically a preponderance of evidence - is tantamount to saying - there was a least one piece of evidence against the man (in this case) which he could not refute. If this is actually how the expulsion was decided, Its a pretty feeble case.
Robert Dana (11937)
It's not just the level of proof; i.e., preponderance v. beyond a reasonable doubt. That's bad enough.

The equally, if not more, distressing, aspect is that in these alleged rape cases on college campuses, the traditional burden of proof has been reversed.

The burden is on the accused to prove he is not culpable. (Try doing that?) For 100s of years - since the mind runneth not to the contrary as my law professor used to say - the burden of proof was on the accuser.

So much for our common law traditions. Bill Buckley - spinning?
tomjones607 (Westchester)
Even when I was in a podunk college in the 70s, sex assault cases where handled internally. This is pretty common practice.
Tony (New York)
"Preponderance of the evidence" is not a very high standard to justify the expulsion of a student and put such a black mark on his reputation. It is especially difficult when the black mark is shrouded in "confidentiality", meaning innuendo, rumor and "assumption" about what happened. Because there are no criminal charges, no public record of the evidence, the accused is left having to defend himself against the unwritten, unspoken "confidential" charge and the assumption that it "must be bad," proven to somebody by the "mere" preponderance of the evidence." What a so-called injustice system.
michjas (Phoenix)
I agree with much of what you say. But I disagree with what you say about the standard of proof. Preponderance of the evidence is the minimum required. But you ignore the fact that only one in ten cases results in expulsion. That is slightly higher than the conviction rate at trial. If campus rates of expulsion are consistent with criminal rates of conviction, the actual standard of proof has to be similar, too. So the standard has to have been a lot closer to reasonable doubt than preponderance of the evidence.
The Chief (New York, New York)
"According to the statement, released by Montague’s lawyer, Max Stern, through a public-relations firm, an independent investigator found that Montague and a female student had consensual sex in an earlier encounter. “The sole dispute is as to the sexual intercourse in the fourth episode,” the statement said. “She stated that she did not consent to it. He said that she did.”

Yeah, sure...they expelled the guy, which they only do in one out of every 10 cases, solely on the basis of "she said, he said" evidence...ah no, I don't think so...
Nank (<br/>)
I absolutely believe that schools rush to expel right now. None of us has real knowledge of what actually happened, but schools are rushing to cover themselves by taking the word of women over men - going overboard in the same unbalanced way they did previously when they believed men over women. At this point, schools feel a lot safer being "proactive," ie getting rid of men who have been accused, than they do deciding it's an unclear, he said / she said kind of case on which they should take no action. There's huge backlash on campuses right now when women's allegations are ignored, and virtually no reaction when young men are expelled on evidence that wouldn't stand up in any court in the land.
EndlessWar (Don&#39;t Fall For It)
The event did not rise to the level of crime. He was expelled to save the University the risk of looking too soft on crime...which it wasn't.
Jim (NYC)
If there were evidence beyond he said/she said the New Haven Police Department would be investigating.
pianowerk (uk)
Hang on, these charges appear to be issues that should be decided in a court of law, not in an ivy leagues university committee rooms? Seems to me that sport trumps all - hey we got a game to play and win, I can't think about a rape charge, there more important things at stake!
ehn (Norfolk)
A court of law should tell Yale who can or cannot attend their school? I disagree. They are with in their rights to expel anyone who the determine has broken their standards of conduct.
Doug (SF)
The article says that the students (with legal consultation) have the right to mutually decide to let the University handle the case rather than bring charges. As long as both agreed without arm twisting and with advice of counsel it seems like a reasonable way to solve the problem.
EndlessWar (Don&#39;t Fall For It)
You are talking at cross purposes. It was not Sports that refused to press criminal charges...it was the purported victim.

The girl (never named, of course) never brought any charges to the cops or the DA against the male student. She was in a sexual relationship with Montague (note the we know HIS name) but decided that one of his overtures was rebuked. THAT is the issue she brought before the school.

Please remember that the Duke Lacrosse students were unfairly charged. Sure they were exonerated after a YEAR, but they have been tainted.

Same with the officers in the Tawana Brawley case and the two HWS cases that come to mind.
Bernard Shaw (Greenwich, NY)
Race Privilege,Entitlement, and Male dominance of women become a perverse nexus with regards to athletes of color on campuses. In ordinary situations young black men who are not famous athletes have the least power in situations of our society. They have few entitlements, few institutions that advocate and or protect them, many who blame them and who find them guilty before innocent, and they have less status power and sexual entitlements.

But as athletes they rise up to the level of many normal white privileged students and almost as much as white athletes.

Here is the devastating and bizarre nexus now they become over entitled sexual aggressors view women as treasures and objects and have power status money and escape responsibility often like their white fellow athletes do.

Our desperately unequal society uses young black athletes, they are unpaid tossed aside after college often having learned little. But we have created in them alongside their white brothers young OVER entitled men who prey often on young women, who are physically aggressive, who have drinking problems and who are unsafe and unfit to live well in a community of equals.

The entire situation is usury and exploitive and even worse young women get used in the process and hurt and then not believed nor protected because we value the athletics not the women.
quadgator (watertown, ny)
Sounds like you have first hand knowledge of the situation and probably witnessed the incidents? No?

Then maybe jumping to conclusions similar to the Duke Lacrosse episode?
CS (Maine)
Jack Montague is white.
Jonathan Katz (St. Louis)
According to the picture, Mr. Montague is pale tan, not "black". He is wearing a dark shirt, however.
Barry Schreibman (Cazenovia, New York)
"A preponderance of the evidence" is an evidentiary standard used in a civil proceeding, never in a criminal one, and is generally defined as "just enough evidence to make it more likely than not that the fact the claimant seeks to prove is true." Think about that: civil, not criminal. Just enough. More likely than not. And yet, on the basis of this ridiculously low, non-criminal standard of proof, one commentator after enough rushes in with RAPE: a horrible crime that must proved by the highest possible standard of proof: proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Yale happens to be my alma mater. Thank God I graduated years before a young man could be lynched by the likes of those so ready to cry "rape!" on the basis of "just enough" and "more likely than not."
Jed (NYC)
You seem to be confusing expulsion from a elite private educational instution with "lynching" - the extrajudicial execution of an unprotected minority. No surprising Yale is your alma-mater.
ehn (Norfolk)
He wasn't lynched, he was expelled. It's a big difference.
We have no inalienable right to attend an Ivy League university. It is a privilege to attend Yale and if you break the rules you get sent home.
Doug (SF)
And if it were a rape charge then it would have been taken to the police. It sounds as if the evidence wasn't strong enough to support a criminal charge but strong enough for a significant punishment -- in this case expulsion as opposed to a large dollar settlement.
DRG (NH)
This case highlights, yet again, that universities should not be police departments. If one Google employee assaults another Google employee, the police are called. Immediately. Not the "Google cops." No other county on earth has campus cops.
Robert J (Durham NC)
I believe that Google would conduct its own internal investigation and decide whether to terminate the employment of the alleged assaulter. The burden of proof would not be beyond a reasonable doubt either. This case is no different.
DocShott (Seattle)
If an employee violates the code of conduct, they would be fired regardless of law enforcement's involvement. Heck, in most states you can be fired for almost any reason. Businesses can decide to expel you without any hearing or evidence. In this case they expelled the young man but you could also see them expelling a young woman for making deliberate false accusations.
Don (Washington, DC)
Being branded a rapist will taint the rest of this young man's life. That's too heavy a consequence to leave to a board of academic bureaucrats operating in secrecy on a committee no doubt influenced by prevailing currents of political correctness.
There are laws in this country that have been forged over many decades to provide the maximum amount of fairness to all concerned. If the woman believes she was raped, file charges and let the justice process play out.
Why does this guy, just because he's a young, white, Yale basketball star, deserve less access to justice than anyone else? We don't ruin other people's lives on the basis of the findings of a secret committee. We leave that to North Korea.
Jonathan Katz (St. Louis)
Actually, universities do ruin other students' lives on the basis of findings of secret committees. Only this one was a famous basketball player; the others are anonymous, except to themselves and their families.
ExPatMX (Ajijic, Jalisco Mexico)
He had access. He chose not to use it.
Faith herndon (Durham, Nc)
The attorneys and representatives for Montague are taking advantage of the fact that his accuser apparently wishes -- very understandably -- to maintain her confidentiality. That allows Montague's side to broadcast their side of things, and essentially to exploit the victim's vulnerability. All your readers who are reacting to Montague's side are being naive. The University would hardly have expelled a team captain in a winning year without compelling reason, and the University -- unlike your readers -- did hear all the evidence.
Don (Washington, DC)
Just like Duke would hardly have shut down its lacrosse team on a frivolous charge that vaporized when put to the test of our criminal justice system? This notion of being able to file serious, life altering charges but do so from behind a curtain with no way for the evidence to be tested to the standards we use to protect everyone else in the society is absurd.
katieatl (Georgia)
Hmm. Ask the Duke Lacrosse players and the UVA fraternity members who were falsely maligned to opine about who here is naive. It's strange that you are writing from Durham, NC, home of Duke, and make no reference to what can happen when we place too much faith in a university community's often agenda driven version of events.
Ian Maitland (Wayzata)
The University would hardly what...?

I have spent most of my life on campus. Universities do what they have to do to keep federal dollars flowing. They have cravenly surrendered their academic freedom to the Title IX thugs who have their own agenda to make over society.

Rape of a person's reputation -- with all the anguish, humiliation, and damage to career prospects -- is right up there with physical rape. Let us treat them the same.
treabeton (new hartford, ny)
Possible solution: If the Yale basketball player believes he has been unfairly expelled, then he should take his case to court (a defamation case) where a judge and/or a jury can evaluate all the evidence.
Jonathan Katz (St. Louis)
A solution, but only after he has suffered great harm from loss of reputation, and at great expense in legal fees. The falsely accused in the Duke lacrosse case were awarded several million dollars each.

This solution invites another evil, of predatory lawyers extorting large sums to settle defamation cases, some of which are spurious.
ehn (Norfolk)
The NYTimes ought to lead with the statement that this story is based on a Press Release from a Public Relations firm representing one side in a dispute. This article was prompted by a statement by Jack Montague's lawyer and released through a Public Relations firm, check paragraph four. It is a one-sided spin. Expect a lawsuit from this young man and his family in the near future.
Basically they are asserting that if a woman consents to intercourse on one occasion then all subsequent sexual interactions must be consensual. It doesn't work that way anymore.
Similarly in abusive relationships it is not uncommon for a victim to submit to the abuse for an extended period. He or she may only recognize the abuse after a period of recovery. So her behavior on the night in question does not "defy logic" as Mr. Montague's lawyer suggests.
I would hope that the paper would also indicate who the independent investigator is and perhaps give a summary of the whole report rather than relying on a clearly biased spin piece by a party who may very well be seeking financial gain. They have clearly released the excerpts that they feel favor their side. There is no indication that the reporter has attempted to speak to the woman who filed the complaint other than to say she has made no public statement.
So Marc Tracy I think you need to check your journalistic ethics and try to get the whole story rather than being a mouthpiece for one side in a dispute.
Ian Maitland (Wayzata)
Thanks for the clarification.

Just as I guessed. If a man is not a mind reader, or if he is not a clairvoyant who can predict how a woman will feel about a particular act days or weeks after it happened, he is liable to be found guilty of sexual assault or worse.
DaveD (Wisconsin)
"The dean of a student’s college makes the final decision. The findings remain confidential and are protected by the privacy law."
Permanent privacy for the accuser even if her (usually) complaint is not upheld. No privacy whatsoever for Mr Montague, now or going forward.
Kangaroo court.
Jonathan (Amherst)
The university has refused to speak about the incident and has honored the law. Montague's name has been publicized because he and his family have made public statements to defray allegations from students on campus who know him and know what happened, and who are not legally bound to protect anyone's privacy. The only person who has said anything about the confidential findings are Montague's family members and lawyers.
Rita (<br/>)
It's Montague who released the story. Nobody would know these details except that he release them. Look at the statistics of who gets any punishment; expulsion is rare, and expulsion of a star basketball player would be rarer. He must have done something really bad in my estimation.
Bill (Des Moines)
I think your statement that he must have done something bad is why Mr. Montague needs lawyers and a PR firm. Yale has determined his guilt but no crime has been reported to the police.
Simon DelMonte (Flushing, NY)
It's about time that colleges stopped favoring athletes over their accusers. Or, for that matter, men in general over their accusers. The vast majority of rape cases are legit.
quadgator (watertown, ny)
please cite and source, "The vast majority of rape cases are legit."
Nank (<br/>)
But does that mean THIS case is legit? That's the problem with making a decision based on probabilities rather than on a legal standard that has been designed to protect all parties.
Awonder (New Jersey)
Simon, How do you know that the vast majority of rape cases are legit? Inherently unprovable.
Harry (Olympia, WA)
This is one of those stories that raises many questions still to be answered before a reader can form an opinion. For now, though, it is safe to say the whole thing is very sad. A lot of damage done and still to be done.
sbmd (florida)
Haven't we heard enough about false accusations yet?
"We believe that it defies logic and common sense that a woman would seek to reconnect and get back into bed with a man who she says forced her to have unwanted sex just hours earlier.”
If this is true then we, and Yale in particular, have gone down the rabbit hole, "where logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead" and our higher institutions are just PC machines afraid of their own shadows.
President Wendy Mandell-Geller (Mooresville,NC)
Wanna have sex in college? The Title IX Rule is Get Consent 1st, but HOW?
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YES to SEX is free to use, with no sign-up or personal information taken – so there is no excuse for students not to use it - since their phones with apps are always in their hands, or next to them, and consent is MANDATORY!

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quadgator (watertown, ny)
The most intimate, joyful, loving and spiritual aspect of human beings is knowe defined on a APP?

I've lived too long....
Jonathan Katz (St. Louis)
What does college have to do with it? The law requires consent at all times and in all places.
RDeanB (Amherst, MA)
Why did the Times put an inset of the Tournament Bracket in this story???
Nancy (Great Neck)
Considering what has been recorded for us so far, the dismissal was uncalled for. Yale had best examine this again with utmost care and fairness.
Been There (U.S. Courts)
It is impressive indeed how many New York Times readers are certain they know the outcome was unjust even without knowing most of the facts.

And, of course, these readers also are experts on legal due process, administration of a university campus, and rape.

So many keyboard experts; so little expertise.
David (California)
Agree that it is impossible to say based on what has been revealed. But it can be said that universities frequently have little concept of due process.
Robert Dana (11937)
Hmm. If we applied your standard - (1) knowing all the facts and (2) being an expert in the area under discussion, 99% of comments on these pages would never see the light of day.

Moreover, in light of Yale's recent record and that of most campuses these days with respect to basic rights of Americans - e.g., the simple right to speak one's mind, without being silenced and/or fired -- I think it's understandable that people may question Yale's actions here.

Lighten up.
EndlessWar (Don&#39;t Fall For It)
Rape is a legal term with absolute definitions and courses of action. The woman did not bring any charges against her attacker in a court of law. If the woman did not go to the police with criminal charges, why should we pay any attention to her?
Robert J (Durham NC)
To say, as many are saying here that a university should not investigate rape allegations, misses the point. A university does not mete out criminal punishment, but a university has its own rules about who is admitted and who gets to a diploma. The university can enforce those rules through process they design. There is a process set up by the university and legal requirements that the process is presumably subject to, but the rules of university are not rules of law, they are private rules and the privilege of earning a Yale degree is subject to obedience to those rules. I don't know what happened here but universities don't have to wait until a student is convicted of rape in a criminal trial to expel a student.
Michael S (Wappingers Falls, NY)
Universities are subject to criminal and civil law as to how they go about determining facts in these quasi judicial proceedings. The right to enforce its rules doesn't give a university the right to inflict real harm on a person through improper procedures. All too often questions of credibility have been settled by political correctness.

BTW don't sneer at the rules of law. The laws of evidence and the burdens of proof have developed over hundreds of years and represent the best way we have found to get at the truth. Universities get into the finding the truth game at their peril.
Dad (Wyoming)
Duke lacrosse case in your front yard?
CRL (Napa Valley...and beyond)
Was there a 'fifth episode'? Just wondering.
Barb (The Universe)
As a rape survivor - I can assure you there was not. Do you have daughters? No means no, date rape is real and horrifying and should just be called rape.
EndlessWar (Don&#39;t Fall For It)
Did you go to the police? If no, it was not rape. If yes, then congratulations on actually allowing the legal system to work.
S. (New York, NY)
I was raped. It has taken me years to come forward because it is so painful. One year is amazing and I commend the person who was able to come forward so quickly. Repetition compulsion is reliving your attack, which victims often do, sometimes with their attacker, sometimes with someone else, to try to gain control and pretend they wanted the encounter. I find some comments here very disturbing... if there had been a video taping my rape it would be black and white: rape - no question... and yet because it took me time to come forward and I saw my attacker after this is seen as some people as reason for doubt? I'm very hurt and speechless. It just goes to show much more education is needed about consent... you can have sex with someone 10 times, but if you don't consent the 1st time, that first time is rape, black and white.
Brad (NYC)
It's impossible to comment thoughtfully without knowing the details of the accusations and the response(s) of the defendant.

One would hope for Yale to expel the student there was significant supporting evidence that favored the young woman's version of events beyond a He said/ She said sort of thing, but unless there is a lawsuit against Yale and/or the woman, I guess we'll never know if justice was served.

The year delay in reporting the incident and the fact she returned to spend the night after she was allegedly sexually assaulted certainly cry out for more detail.
anycomment (N J)
You have highlighted one of the problems here. Montague has been identified as having committed an act warranting his suspension and because of his position on the bb team he has received significant negative publicity. Yet Yale is unwilling to provide the facts supporting its decision. This leaves it to Montague to release his version of the facts -- which appropriately leaves many skeptical as to its accuracy. Also, Montague has no appeal rights. So the process is governed by innuendo.
Edward Branigan (Oak Park, California)
Yale University has an obligation to hold its students to a code of conduct.

Some comments to this article seem not to believe that "spousal rape" applies to "girlfriend rape."

Without knowing additional facts, one should not draw a negative inference from the supposed one-year delay in the young woman's filing of a complaint. What happened during this year (e.g., therapy)?

The Yale inquiry is not a criminal case and thus need not be constrained by the burden of proof required in a criminal case. A "preponderance of the evidence" is a legitimate standard in civil cases.

The students involved are free to seek legal redress, including weighing the costs of such an ordeal.
Barb (The Universe)
What is spousal rape or girlfriend rape? A way to justify rape? Rape is rape and horrifying and I can tell you it scarred me for life regardless and maybe because I knew the perpetrator.
pianowerk (uk)
"Yale University has an obligation to hold its students to a code of conduct"
Yale University has an obligation to report its students to the legal authorities in such circumstances. Like many prestigious institutions Yale thinks that "rape" can be discussed in the common rooms on campus and a decison be made - what, suspension from the Uni for a year? No Yale should hand over cases like this to the Police and legal proceedings should take their course.
Jonathan (Amherst)
Perhaps, but that is just not how things work; it is not unique to Yale by any stretch. Practically every institution gives their students this channel to voice complaints.
lrichins (nj)
I don't know the details, but assuming either that the guy in question is innocent, or that Yale had a 'preponderance of the evidence" is on shaky ground. There has rightfully been a focus on sexual assault on campus, something that for years has been under-reported or blown off, as with places like the University of Florida, as being 'boys will be boys", which included the help of local law enforcement covering up these issues.

That said, what disturbs me is that from what I can tell, there are no objective standards for these kinds of incidents. Forcible rape is easy to define, if someone used force or coercion, but these sexual assault cases often hinge on when no means no, or deciding when someone could not consent, and often these come down to the alleged victim filing a complaint, even when they don't remember what happened, or can hinge that the alleged perpetatror 'should have known the victim was drunk". In one case of same sex sexual assault, the girl who had penetrative sex with another girl was the one who filed the claim, saying if she wasn't drunk, she never would have done that to the alleged perpetrator (which raises all kinds of questions, how someone who was the active partner could be the one who was sexually assaulted)....The other thing that worries me is there has been so much made about this kind of thing, that we are in a lynch mob mentality, that if there is a complaint, there is a crime, and no one has explained well how universities try to figure
Nancy (<br/>)
You're thinking of Florida State and the Jameis Winston case. The woman in that case is pursuing a civil suit since the local police and prosecutors were not inclined to "interfere" with the quarterback of their National Championship team.

Other than that, I agree with everything you wrote.
br (midwest)
@lrichins,

When does "no" mean "no?" When someone says "no," that's when. If you're having trouble deciding whether someone is too incapacitated to give consent, well, i would submit that you have your answer right there.

A lot of this is a bunch of hookum. If you're pushing boundaries to the point that you're not sure whether what you're doing is right and you later find yourself in trouble, you brought it on yourself, and no one should feel a bit sorry for you.

We're making things a lot more complicated than they need to be. Unless, of course, you're the sort who preys on drunk women. Then it can get real complicated, real quick. As it should be.
pianowerk (uk)
Rape is Rape. No is No, not yes. Drunk? but sober enough to rape? No- report all such cases to the legal authorities. Yale is tying itself up in knots - outside of yale, rapists get reported and if proven, jailed.
Brian (NY)
I won't comment on the event and Yale's decision, since so little can actually be ascertained about either from the article.

That doesn't keep me from being outraged - at the NYT for printing the article in the first place. It deserved a small paragraph tucked back in the lower portion of the Sports section, at best. You do a disservice to all involved in this situation.

You keep on testing my resolve to continue subscribing.
atwalsh (Basking Ridge, nj)
I beg to differ; the issue of the jurisprudence of sexual assault cases at college deserves attention. It has received little to this point but the high profile of Jack Montague has put it squarely where it belongs -on the front page of papers. The outrage in the comments of today's article speaks to the unfair (un-American?) position the accused find themselves in under Title IX. The light of day deserves to be shown on this issue.
pianowerk (uk)
" It deserved a small paragraph tucked back in the lower portion of the Sports section, at best"

What, as in a possible rape is a sport and should only be reported in the sports pages? Where are the University Rape Leagues Table? Where are the Stats? Hey who is going to be signed up to Major League rapists, and what teams will they be moving to? Who has the best yardage, points, runs (rapage) averages? Tell me.
pianowerk (uk)
best advice? Stop subscribing - with the views you hold, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Lawrence Imboden (Union, NJ)
Anyone found guilty of the crime rape needs to be put behind bars. Keeping that in mind, anyone making false accusations of sexual assault should be put behind bars.
Rape destroys lives. So does lying.
Jonathan (Amherst)
This is all well and good, but nobody has been found guilty of anything in a court of law, neither rape nor false accusations. And it follows that nobody is being put behind bars, so I'm not sure what the issue is here. For many reasons, the victim chose not to pursue legal channels. With Title IX, this is a legitimate thing to do. It gives her the peace of mind to not see her rapist on campus every day without having to deal with a police investigation. So no one will be found guilty, and everyone will be kept out of jail. A private institution has simply decided what is best for the majority of its clients.
Sleater (New York)
I'm utterly against sexual assault. What I also am against is universities litigating issues like this. Call the cops and use the courts. That's what they're for. It is very strange that the woman purportedly contacted the alleged rapist, returned to his room, and spent the night with him. Who knows what really happened? Then again, the courts should adjudicate on what transpired, not me, not Yale.
Michael S (Wappingers Falls, NY)
Rape is a criminal offense and should be handled by the criminal justice system. Theses institutional trials are problematic - often unprofessional and subject conflicts of interest when the schools seeks to protect its reputation. At the very least, knowing the limitation of these kangaroo courts, the penalties imposed should be limited to reprimands.
Barb (The Universe)
The schools do a better job than the criminal justice system. The criminal justice system is a joke when it comes to prosecuting rapists and protecting victims - trust me I'm a victim and would never go through it- nor would many victims. Go check the stats and talk to women you know. Peace.
Nor Cal Rural (Cobb, California)
I see, we should trust you because you say you are a victim. Therein lies the problem.
Simple Truth (Atlanta)
I can remember when Duke was referred to as "The Harvard of the South". It now appears to me that Yale has become "the Duke of the North". The only difference between this and the Duke lacrosse witch hunt is the fact that this was limited to a PC kangaroo court and did not include a criminally corrupt district attorney. If Yale thought that there was a perponderance of evidence to support the charge of rape they should have immediately called the authorities. Period, end of sentence. If I were Mr. Montague I would hire a damned good trial lawyer and take Yale, the Title IX official and every member of that kangaroo court to the cleaners.
Been There (U.S. Courts)
Which is why you are not a lawyer and will not be winning a lawsuits.
Lawyers learn the facts before they reach conclusions.
br (midwest)
@Simple Truth,

You're right. Of course you're right. You know more than anyone at Yale knows, both about the law and about the facts of the case. Those darn idiots at Yale! People at Ivy League schools are SO stupid! Right?
Nor Cal Rural (Cobb, California)
Yup, when it comes to love and emotions, academics can be stupid.
Dan Kravitz (Harpswell, Me)
Universities have no business investigating rape accusations, and then acting as prosecution, defense and judge. These matters are the responsibility of police, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges and juries. The judicial system is not perfect, but this matters are their job.

Dan Kravitz
Been There (U.S. Courts)
Do you think that an employer would have a legitimate interest if one employee were accused of raping another?

How about a military branch?
A police force?
OldGuyWhoKnowsStuff (Hogwarts)
Also, surely, they put themselves into a position of major liability when they do so. Duke ended up paying compensation to not only the three defendants in the lacrosse case, but to every one of the lacrosse players after destroying their reputations and canceling their season.

This is work the police do fairly well these days (not counting cops in certain football towns).
Bud (McKinney, Texas)
Mon Dieu!Why do we have a University and not the New Haven police doing the investigation?If the DA then wants to bring charges,so be it.I hope this guy wins more then the $55 million Erin Andrews did.And would he have been expelled if he were black?Doubt it.
Wordsworth from Wadsworth (<br/>)
I agree with many comments here saying that a college tribunal should not have jurisdiction over these types of cases.

There have been many instances of universities going soft on male transgressors for public relations reasons and saving the brand. That's very bad. Here the facts seem to favor the young man heavily.

Given this is Yale's first NCAA tournament in a long time, given he was the captain of team, Montague seems not only to have been treated unfairly but to have suffered damages that will have an affect over his entire life.

Okay. Yale did not want to use a Connecticut or district court. Now Montague should. He can tell his side of the story. She can be cross examined. Yale has deep pockets and should pay.

If the fact pattern in this article is close to the truth, then the administrators at Yale have acted counter to their interests. As mentioned, there is a reason that universities keep this sort of thing in house. Now there is a grave potential for Yale to smear itself.

Yale's attorneys will most likely offer a settlement to Montague the value of a middling Silicon Valley startup. Going to court will be a lot worse.
Been There (U.S. Courts)
Why do you think you know "the facts? Do you have access to information that was not disclosed by the university and published in the Times?

About all you know is the procedure the university followed and the result. You have no idea what really happened between the accuser and the accused.

Stop this omniscience nonsense.
pianowerk (uk)
"Given this is Yale's first NCAA tournament in a long time, given he was the captain of team, Montague seems not only to have been treated unfairly but to have suffered damages that will have an affect over his entire life"
Sport trumps Rape - read all about it! Shameful that "Yale's first NCAA tournament in a long time" should trump a womens rights. Yale needs to call in the Police and pronto. Too afraid of reputational damage or losing a sports tournament trumps rape acussations? The US is in a mess.
Fred Wilson (San Francisco)
Wholeheartedly stand with the basketball captain. He should never have been expelled.
ellienyc (new york city)
While I guess I understand the position they want to conduct this stuff in secret to encourage more people to come forward, I think all these cases should really be turned over to the local police, so an alleged rape at Yale is handled the same way as an alleged rape of any other resident of New Haven on the streets of New Haven.
Jim (Colorado)
His nickname is "Gucci" and she reported the incident a year after it happened? And she had sex with him three times, but the fourth was coerced, though she "reached out to him" and came back to sleep with him the same night that he assaulted her. Yale sounds like a perfectly awful place. They sound like awful people and anyone identified as a Title IX official or coordinator sounds like a horrible person. I felt dirty just reading this.
pianowerk (uk)
Gucci now associated with Rape accusations - I must stop buying thier goods! Insufferable elitist squawking. Use of Gucci as a nickname tells you a lot about the sort of people at Yale - but hey, don't worry in 15 years, exactly that type of person will be running for Senator, Governor and egad the POTUS him/herself!!
Annie Butler (California)
If a woman doesn't want to be "raped" she shouldn't take off her clothes and get in his bed.
Hitchens (Planet Earth)
Whoa Whoa Whoa Annie...."if a woman doesn't want to be raped...."
WHAT????????
realanastasia (Hunterdon County NJ)
And if a person doesn't want to be "mugged" or "robbed" or "assaulted," he or she should similarly take care to hide any and all signifiers--clothing, accessories, automobiles, etc.--which might suggest to an assailant that he or she is a worthwhile target, right?
kate (dublin)
I have absolutely no idea what Montague did or did not do, but I know that Yale is very (one might say notoriously) slow to expel anyone for other than academic issues and that confidentiality in these cases is the rule across higher education in the United States. What troubles me the most here is that the coach spoke out in support of him after he was expelled and without acknowledging that there might be two sides to the story. The team's protest also appeared not to acknowledge the seriousness of sexual assault, which a recent survey of Yale undergrads found is all too prevalent on the campus. And would there be such sympathy for Montague were he not a bona fide sports star? There is always more support for athlete in such cases than for possible perpetrators who are not on teams, and very little for the victims.
OldGuyWhoKnowsStuff (Hogwarts)
Have you asked yourself why it is that an alleged perpetrator of sexual assault is investigated by police and then, if warranted, tried in the courts -- unless the events occur at certain institutions, such as a university or the Catholic Church, in which case the institution presumes to place itself in the position of both investigator and court system?
Nor Cal Rural (Cobb, California)
Incidence of sexual assault is determined by a survey? Should answers to a survey be used to determine such a serious thing. How was the survey administered? What were the questions?
RT1 (Princeton, NJ)
Would that Yale were exceptional for blowing the dust off well aged "cases" and pillorying young men a year or two later. It is really disturbing and yes, reads much like the witch hunt of false accusation and implanted memories that ruined more than few day care worker's lives. The federal government has issued a mandate to colleges and universities come up with crimes to support the desired statistic making a hand in the wrong place at the wrong time the same as a forcible rape. College administrations are about the last platform where adult behavior should be adjudicated. If a rape has occurred it belongs in the courts.
judith bell (toronto)
America has elected judges who promise to be tough. How is that an impartial system when the adjudicator's economic future is based on how he rules?

Now you have basically star chambers at work where unqualified lay people determine the future of young men who are not entitled to any of the normal protections of a democracy.

And yet I read again and again in these pages how America is an advanced democracy and how all the rest of us have to meet your standards.

What standards?
pianowerk (uk)
What league table do you read that the US is an advanced democracy?
TDurk (Rochester NY)
If the facts of this matter are true as reported and further summarized by Mike Drop below, then Yale's process is indeed morally bankrupt.

Colleges have zero business acting as in loco parentis have zero business acting as a judicial system. College administrators and their committees are incompetent to perform these functions.

Perhaps the team should take a page from the U of Mo football players and simply boycott the NCAAs.
Ben (New Jersey)
TDurk, the problem with your idea is that no one at Yale or among their alumni care enough about intercollegiate athletics to give a boycott any teeth.
br (midwest)
@TDurk and Mike Drop,

Would you fellas please let us know where the Dow Jones Industrial Average will finish next Friday? You seem to know everything about this case that no one else seems to know, it's worth asking whether your omniscience extends to the stock market.
Nancy (Great Neck)
Good grief, this is frightening in every direction.
gopher1 (minnesota)
In a moment of ironic timing, last night ESPN ran a "30 for 30" film on the Duke Lacrosse players accused of rape in 2006. While guilty of massive bad judgment, the Duke players were exonerated on the rape charge. But before that happened, the campus and community had tried and convicted them.
It seems like the Yale community is ready to judge Montague based on the small amount of information that has come out form the campus disciplinary hearings. If the allegation is rape, the case should be in a criminal court. If the victim is alleging a violation of the student behavior code, then something other than rape occurred and Montague shouldn't be branded as such.
Sexual assault on campus is a real problem but campus authorities, even at mighty Yale, are the wrong people to handle it. Send the alleged victims to law enforcement and protect the accuser and the accused accordingly.
Old blue (Chapel Hill, N.C.)
The Duke lacrosse "heroes" never spent a minute in jail. That's pretty good for being "tried and convicted" of rape. Meanwhile, folks in Durham whose parents are not rich routinely are accused and jailed and count themselves lucky if their innocence of the criminal charges is eventually established.
OldGuyWhoKnowsStuff (Hogwarts)
In the Duke case, the three indicted young men were exonerated by the forensic evidence: the DNA testing which showed that the accuser had the DNA of 11 males in and on her, none of whom was a Duke lacrosse player. As you also saw, defense attorneys were able to put together a timeline using cell-phone records, bank AMT video, and a computer to show that there was no 20-minute window in which the alleged events could have occurred.

Does a university have any such resources? Doubtful.
Rick (Los Angeles)
Old Blue's response is repulsive. The Duke lacrosse players were falsely accused and indicted by a immoral and unethical public servant; they were put on trial with decades of incarceration at issue. The Durham community, the Duke community, and the media branded these three men as sex offenders. They were publicly identified and vilified as rapists.

It is a national scandal that every day poor criminal defendants are inadequately defended against charges that may be similarly unfounded. But to suggest that these the Duke defendants were somehow not horribly victimized because they had the resources to fight back is simply ignorant and repugnant.
Concerned Reader (Boston)
If Jack Montague prevails, as I expect he will, this could easily cost Yale 8 figures because of Jack Montague's "lost income" due to its effect on his basketball career. If so, hopefully this will also get some Title IX officials fired.
Martin (Washington DC)
It may cost Yale a lot of money, but it's unlikely anyone playing at Yale would have a great NBA career or even play in the NBA (no offense to Mr. Montague). That doesn't diminish the impact that a wrongful "conviction" has.
br (midwest)
A Yale player with a future in pro basketball? While there is a Dudley every now and then to prove the rule, Mr Montague can only hope that any damages will not be based on future earnings in the NBA. Thanks--we needed a spot of levity here.
pianowerk (uk)
So you get into Yale, and your ambition is to play basketball? Oh hang on, so he gets into Yale on a sports scholarship and plays sport and learns nothing? Confused - Yale = Basketball and not Yale = great career in arts/humanities/science/medical/legal/busines/public service careers?
robert conger (mi)
If I read the facts in this case right any male student at Yale who engages in a sexual activity with a woman has a chance of being kicked out at any time if that woman wants. Did I MISS SOMETHING
Rick (San Francisco)
Actually, it sounds like no male Yale student should have sex with a female Yale student. Another woman probably wouldn't be an issue.
Roger Chalmers (Atlanta)
Yes, you did. You missed all of the evidence that was presented by the other side in this matter, because all that is available and reported on in this article is the press release from the young man's lawyer.
pianowerk (uk)
Yes, the whole point went "zoom" right over your pointy head. You missed the whole "Other person involved in a possible rape scenario" and went straight for the "Miss Something". And yes, you did. And in avery, very big way. I'd ask you to read the article again, but I fear you may not gain any deeper understanding of the issues presented.
Jed (NYC)
Not surprisingly, for all the reactionary commentary about how colleges should not be in the business of adjudicating sexual misconduct claims, none of the objectors to the existing process have suggested that perhaps the NY Times is also not an appropriate venue to establish the true facts of a misconduct claim.

If Montegue has any sort of leg to stand on, his lawyer should have filed a complaint in court, not issued a cheap press release through a public relations firm. None of us are privy to any unsavory details that may have been substantiated or uncontested and certainly Montegue's attorney is only going to share facts in a light most favorable to Montegue.
Joel (Branford, CT)
Wicked argument, Jed. The principle of our judicial system is that every accusation and trial should be public, so that the people can be informed of everything relative to the case and discuss the facts on the public place. The press has always been an important vector of the dissemination of the information, and now in the age of Internet 2.0, is also an ideal place to discuss them.

The only reactionary commentary here is yours, that approve the return by Yale and most university to a medieval system of justice, where the authority judges in secrecy but condemns publicly, and the only role of the public is to throws rotten vegetables, insults, or stones at the convicted.
pianowerk (uk)
Justice should be seen to be done - i.e openly in an open court. See R v Sussex Justices, Ex parte McCarthy ([1924] 1 KB 256, [1923] All ER Rep 233
steve (nyc)
Amen, Jed.
dolly patterson (Facebook Drive [email protected] 1 Hacker Way in Menlo Park)
Why would Yale want to get involved in this mess? It's a private university and no matter what, the BB player demonstrated poor judgement.

Look at how costly J. Winston's "rape" has been to FSU, not to mention Stanford 4 yr conflict w a "he-said, she-said" story
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/the-stanford-undergraduate-an...

I don't blame Yale for expelling this kid one bit.
Charles Michener (<br/>)
Why should the boy's identity be made public, indeed to the point of making him the subject of national news stories, when the girl's identity remains concealed? Isn't his privacy as valuable as hers? Or is public shaming supposed to be part of his punishment in a case that never made it to a court of law (which is where it belonged)? And given Yale's policy of withholding all information about the case and the confidentiality of the official findings, how can anyone at Yale or other colleges be expected to learn anything from this incident?
Lawrence Imboden (Union, NJ)
This shows why universities are incompetent when handling criminal complaints. Hand it over to the local police, not a school disciplinary board.
Cowboy (Wichita)
His lawyer chose to come forward with his name.
Faith herndon (Durham, Nc)
He is choosing to go public, and taking advantage of the fact that she chooses not to. So you and a few other readers just believe his and his well paid lawyer's side of the story.
David (Chicago)
A lot of people are commenting based on very little information--and what information exists has been provided by the young man's counsel.

In the first place--and having served on a number of university judicial boards--it is entirely appropriate for universities to conduct judicial inquiries into alleged misconduct. In no way are these intended to replace legal proceedings; however, entirely SEPARATE from any pending prosecution, a college or university has the right and the obligation to determine whether students who have been accused of misconduct should remain on campus.

Think of it this way: legal proceedings for serious crimes often take months or years to resolve. Is a university supposed to just wait until the courts have resolved matters before determining whether a student belongs on campus? And on what principle do you imagine a university can't have its own disciplinary proceedings?

Secondly, what about the university disciplinary process is more inherently unfair than a jury trial? Students are allowed to have legal counsel, and a 'jury' composed of faculty (and sometimes students) hears the case. The preponderance of evidence criteria are quite similar to those in civil trials.

There is most decidedly not an epidemic of falsely accused white men being expelled from elite universities. There is, however, a rape epidemic on our campuses. Get some perspective.
Jan Kneib (Colorado Springs)
Amen
Bud (McKinney, Texas)
Let the police investigate.I have zero confidence in a University doing anything correct,especially a rape investigation.
Cathy (Hopewell Junction NY)
@David - The proceeding is different from a real trial, which is the point that many are uncomfortable with. The panels are deciding whether to expel or punish a student for a violent crime. The results of the inquiry have a real and lasting impact on the students.

Let me put it this way. Not too long ago, the Times published a series of articles exposing broad arbitration clauses in any number of contracts and agreements, which forced consumers, employees and others into a de facto shadow justice system, simply because they agreed to buy a product or work for a company. The Title IX actions are another such shadow justice system that force students to agree to having an investigation into criminal charges heard by a University panel, for which they are required to adhere to if they want an education. A student cannot bypass the system, and the consequences may be severe.

We have a justice system. We should use it. The concept that justice just takes too long, so a school has the right to decide justice for itself, more quickly, and bypass the real process, is like forced arbitration clauses, a suspect circumvention of a system that was put into the Constitution for a reason.
Cleo (New Jersey)
I was not aware of this story until today. But I do remember the Duke Lacrosse case. Last night ESPN had a two hour documentary of that disaster. It appears that the Duke students who demonstrated, banged drums and tins outside the frat house, and called the team a bunch of rapists, are now attending Yale. I am glad that the Times did not repeat it's Duke mistake and jump on the rape bandwagon, but I see no review or comment by the Times on last nights program.
Charles (New York, NY)
I have tickets to attend a performance next week of the new Broadway production of Arthur Miller's The Crucible. After reading Mr. Montague's story, I anticipate that the play's message will remain as relevant and as powerful as it did when it premiered in 1953.
pianowerk (uk)
No, the Crucible is deeper than you imagine. But the pitchforks and flaming torches are alive and well on the interweb and the US of A.
Paul (Birmingham, MI)
" an independent investigator found that on the night in question, the female student “reached out to him” after they had parted, returned to his room, and spent the night.

“We believe that it defies logic and common sense"

I.e., all women must behave exactly as we tell them to...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/13/jian-ghomeshi-trial-sexual-...
Kenarmy (Columbia, mo)
"all women must behave exactly as we tell them to..."

Not quite, but the facts in the case bring to mind the saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".
NYer (NYC)
Like many people, I have no toleration for sexual abuse on college campuses or for all the special treatment pre-pro athletes at big-time sports "programs" routinely get, including being shielded for far more egregious offenses than this one seems to be (Jameis Winston, etc).

But this case -- and in particular, Yale's handling of it -- doesn't really pass the smell test, especially in view of Yale's secretive attitude. As universities always do, it seems that they're trying to use "confidentiality" laws to cloak the process and cover themselves, not protect individuals. ("A Yale spokesman continued to decline to comment on this specific case, citing the federal confidentiality laws.")

On the other hand, can you imagine if a star athlete at some big-time tournament-headed "program" was accused of a sexual abuse crime not long before the tournament? Cover-up, denial, pay the cops to doctor evidence, publicly shame the accuser, etc, etc...
yoyo (madison)
"No" means "No."

If she said "No," which the investigator concluded she did, then it does not matter if they had engaged in consensual sex on a previous occasion.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Cleo (New Jersey)
The reason it is so hard to understand is because most of the people reading this article are adults, not children, and we judge stories of this type from our own real world experience. Neither the "victims" story. or the ability of the investigator to come to a conclusion, pass the smell test.
Ryan Bingham (Up there)
Well, because she waited 15 months to say "no"?
Jim (Colorado)
Because she made the claim a year after the incident. And because she came back to his place and slept with him on the same night that she had said, "No." It kind of seems like a "yoyo" response. What is your name?
Mike75 (CT)
Its amazing that we still allow universities, and not the criminal justice system, to adjudicate allegations of sexual assault. We don't let them adjudicate other violent crimes like murder. So why should rape be any different?
Caroline Posner (Yale)
“We believe that it defies logic and common sense that a woman would seek to re-connect and get back into bed with a man who she says forced her to have unwanted sex just hours earlier.”

This is wholly false and fails to consider common narratives that occur within coercive, non-consensual, and abusive encounters. For many people, the understanding that an event or relationship has been non-consensual or abusive takes a very long time to come around to— particularly as it is incredibly disorienting and disturbing to try to reconcile it happening to you with the belief that you are "smart enough" or "wise enough" to recognize it before it could happen; frequently, the person who has perpetrated the action is a primary source of support or comfort, and whom the survivor might immediately return to. That's by no means the survivor's fault, and this statement from the PR firm is simply disrespectful and cruel to those who have been in such situations.
Napawright (Briarcliff Manor, NY)
It's utterly ridiculous to crawl back into bed with your rapist if you have somewhere else to go - as she did; equally as disturbing are the fact that (i) she made no report to the police (as best we can tell), (ii) she did not go and seek hospital treatment for this incident (as best we can tell) and (iii) this incident went unreported for a year. The Title IX folks would have done nicely up in Salem in 1693.
Betty Boop (NYC)
They had hooked up only three times before; hard to believe that would make him a "primary source of support or comfort."
pianowerk (uk)
You have no understanding of the female psyche or the male power play mentality. Men penetrate, women are penetrated. What does that tell you about the power within a complex male/female relationship?
Jack (Boston)
There is no justifiable punishment for a he said/she said case.
Jim (NY, NY)
At least several hundred years of common law contradict you.
Jack (Boston)
Just because it is law does not justify punishment based on one's word against another's.
pianowerk (uk)
How about reintroducing trial by combat or trial by ordeal? That'll sort it. get rid of those pesky case laws, it'll be much more straightforward.
katieatl (Georgia)
This case seems yet another amalgam of the Duke Lacrosse and UVA fraternity cases. When will these campus kangaroo courts be outlawed? One either has a criminal case for rape or one doesn't and it's
clear that the accuser at Yale had no case outside an audience of true believers conveniently hiding behind confidentiality rules.

This young man and his family should sue Yale, the accuser and anyone else responsible for the ruination of his reputation and future prospects. If this were my son I would not stop until Yale is disgraced in the same way that UVA, Rolling Stone and the UVA accuser have been disgraced.
Ryan Bingham (Up there)
If I was on the Yale team, I'd walk off the court in support of my captain.
whatever (nh)
I truly hope this kid sues the heck out of Yale and its Title 9 administrator, and wins big.
Nancy (Wellesley MA)
Yale - damned if they do., damned if they don't. Students need to know the rules and the consequences. Both men and women. The rules of what qualifies as "consent" seem to be ever shifting. What bothers me is that, more than 40 years after I entered Yale, these situations continue to occur. What do young men and women not understand?
redleg (Southold, NY)
Centuries of advancement in the criminal law process have been reduced to kindergarten level by Title IX and the Federal Privacy Laws regarding academia.

Unwanted sexual contact is a crime. Period. The level of seriousness should be determined by professionals trained and licensed to deal with it - namely, police and prosecuting attorneys, not college officials.

As to the truth of the matter, the jury system and the laws of evidence usually come to an accurate conclusion, and it is public knowledge.
Roger Chalmers (Atlanta)
I am surprised by the number of people willing to denounce the Yale proceeding which involved consideration of evidence from both sides of this dispute when only one side (presented by the advocate for Mr. Montague) is revealed in this article.

Clicking a few links here the following can be found in Misplaced Solidarity, an op-ed from 3/4/16 in The Yale Herald:

UWC cases will only result in expulsion if the committee finds a preponderance of evidence that a respondent severely violated Yale’s sexual misconduct policy, a decision that takes into account prior violations of a similar nature. This preponderance standard means that there was convincing evidence that an expellable offense occurred. A look at any semi-annual Report will show that expulsions are infrequent relative to the volume of complaints; last semester’s Report cites only one such case.

Of course, the most compelling pieces in favor of Mr. Montague are presented here by his lawyer -- that is what lawyers do after all. But apparently there was even more convincing evidence presented by the other side in the Yale proceeding. Without knowing all the evidence one cannot rationally discredit the outcome.

And another thing. If Mr. Montague truly respected his teammates he would not have dragged forth this mess while they are attempting to go forward with a historic run into March Madness. What might we take away from his self-centeredness in proceeding with a media campaign at this time?
Diane Hallinen (Flint)
Well said. I can't help but wonder what else they have against this guy. The argument that rapes on campus should only be tried in the courts make sense, until you realize how few make it to prosecutors, how few make it to court, and the horrible experience survivors are put through. Rarely are rapists are convicted.

Most rapes are committed by very few men. I don't understand why more men are not horrified by rapists. All these comment writers that are assuming this guy got a bad deal are making themselves look like enablers. I sure wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a man who assumed an expelled student from Yale was a good boy because his lawyer said so.

I hope the rape survivors who are reading these absurd comments realize their rape is not their fault, and many people who donate to colleges are applying pressure to these schools to remove rapists from campus.
Lynn in DC (um, DC)
"Jackie" and "Mattress Girl" have conditioned me to be skeptical of any rape charges on college campuses. I simply do not believe "Yale Girl." Let's roll the tape: she had consensual sex with Mr. Montague three times, the nature of the fourth episode is unclear, she returned to Mr. Montague's bed to spend the night after being raped ( !). The preponderance of the evidence indicates there was no rape. Why is a Yale committee charged with sorting out an alleged crime? I hate that "feminists" have turned the real crime of rape into a joke and rape victims into laughing stocks. I hope Mr. Montague sues Yale and his accuser. Enough is enough.
ehn (Norfolk)
What makes you say the preponderance of evidence suggests there was no rape? The selective information from one lawyer's press release?
atwalsh (Basking Ridge, nj)
The roots of this case goes back to the order by the Department of Education in 2011 requiring universities and colleges to lower the standard of justice used in determining guilt in such cases - or lose federal funding. Previously the standard was 'beyond a reasonable doubt'; the standard now is 'more likely than not' that someone who is accused is guilty. in other words the jury - in these cases a group of four students and administrators - need be only 50.01% certain to find the accused at fault.

The trampling of due process in these cases is the subject of a letter from 28 members of the Harvard Law School faculty last year to Harvard University when Harvard complied with the new title IX standards. In part the letter reads "...Harvard has adopted procedures for deciding cases of alleged sexual misconduct which lack the most basic elements of fairness and due process, are overwhelmingly stacked against the accused..."

As Harvard Law Professor Janet Halley said at the time in an interview with the Harvard Crimson "...heterosexual men are just as important as lesbian feminists, and I don't care about one identity group more than another. I sympathize with the justice aspirations of all kinds of people."

The Obama administration, in its efforts to wrong past ills, has decided that justice for some groups of people are more important than others. Shame on them.
Hopefully this miscarriage of justice will change the way these cases are adjudicated going forward.
Shamrock (Westfield, IN)
Why not a Title IX complaint that universities have created a hostile environment for men. If this case isn't an example, there never could be.
FSMLives! (NYC)
Colleges and universities should not be deciding criminal cases of any kind. If a student says they have been assaulted, the police should be called, and an arrest made, if the evidence supports it.
judith bell (toronto)
PRECISELY!!!
Glenn (New Jersey)
The Kafkaesque nightmare of "Sexual Misconduct" continues. Does this country (the only one dysfunctional enough) have to go through this idiocy for decades as it did in the 80's and 90's during the day-care abuse hysteria?

Can anyone really wonder why the Republican clowns are doing so well if the alternative way of living in the US is being run by absolute fruitcakes?
Dick nixon (Nyc)
Duke Lacrosse team comes toIts mind. Remember innocent until proven guilty!
Concerned Reader (Boston)
While the Republican candidates for President are a mess, universities are almost uniformly run by Democrats. This is their mess.
Joel (Branford, CT)
@Concerned Reader: it looks like you misread Glenn. He agrees that this is a Democrats' mess.
Lkf (Nyc)
Although rape is heinous and should be prosecuted forcefully and criminally, we are in dangerous territory when we allow school administrators to assay the emotional state of student relationships.

Assuming that the young man is not some kind of known sexual predator--and there is no indication that he is in the article-- it is hard not to be sympathetic to his plight on the facts presented.

It seems to me that we have opened up an avenue of inquiry not just into whether sex was authorized but also what types of activity were contemplated-- with the prospect of a criminal penalty looming particularly over the male participant. The potential for abuse and error is enormous-- for ALL participants.

Young males (especially) need to be aware that the penalty for judging their partners amorous interest incorrectly is the loss of their academic career and potential criminal prosecution and notoriety which may follow them forever.
APS (WA)
"Assuming that the young man is not some kind of known sexual predator--and there is no indication that he is in the article-- "

There actually is an indication of a record of misbehavior when Yale says they take prior accusations into account in deciding to expel someone. But you're right that was not presented in the article which was fed by the young man's attorney.
ehn (Eastern Shore of Maryland)
Stated another way, don't force people to have sex.
Know Nothing (AK)
The single best why does the university become involved. These are adult individuals and there is a public entity to handle such matters. It is time to cease coddling, favoring these elite individuals
Cathy (Hopewell Junction NY)
Because the student was expelled under a rule that is based on the "preponderance of evidence" and adjudicated by a private panel, prosecuted by independent investigators, there really is no way to determine if the decision was justice for the victim or a violation of the expelled student's rights.

Rape charges should not be handled by school panels. This directive to have schools be judge and jury, and base the judgement on who is more believable to the panel, needs to be reversed.

Schools should provide counseling and assistance to victims. The school should provide a legal advocate to pursue rape charges. Schools should give the victim an opportunity to avoid contact with the accused - injunctions, if you will, and different schedules, room assignments. But schools should not provide investigators, prosecutors, judges and juries. The government's adoption of Title IX as the reason for shadow courts is abusing Title IX.
Jim (NY, NY)
Cathy: you state that school panels should not handle rape charges. But I believe school panels are within their rights to determine whether a student's behavior goes beyond the bounds of acceptable conduct within the university. The university can decide to expel someone. That is not a criminal conviction. It is the loss of a school-granted privilege, specifically, the privilege of attending the school and ultimately graduating. The student can sue the school for breach of the tuition contract and the same burden of proof, the preponderance of the evidence, will apply. I expect the "female student" would be a witness that the plaintiff would depose in the case in order to establish that he was wrongfully expelled. Compare the OJ Simpson case, where the victims won a large civil judgment against OJ although he was found not guilty under the criminal burden of proof.
Jim (Laramie, Wyo.)
mark (chicago)
sounds like duke lacross
Jim (Atlanta)
As we've all learned, these can be painfully difficult knots to unravel. Sometimes it seems that everyone loses. What makes these incidents especially problematic is the role of the university in matters that would otherwise be left to individuals, their families, and if necessary, the judicial system to sort out. I don't envy the academic administrators who must make these decisions. All that said, students, their families, and the public at large need and want to feel confident that these institutions are focused solely (or almost entirely) on the best interests of the students themselves, and not on the public image, brand, and potential legal responsibility of the school. Raging controversy about forced medical leave and related issues at institutions that include Yale is undermining that confidence. Colleges and universities need to work harder to shore up public trust and confidence.
Chris (nowhere I can tell you)
places like Yale love the confidentiality clauses because it becomes impossible for people to understand how "standards" are being applied. If similar cases yield different outcomes, they aren't " standards," and they are barely guidelines.
br (midwest)
It is unfair to single out Yale for confidentiality. Every other school in this country that receives federal funding does the exact same thing. If confidentiality is violated in such matters and students are publicly identified, the institution risks losing all federal funding. The community college down the street would do the exact same thing as Yale has done here.
Fred (New York, NY)
The plot to the next David Mamet play?
aj (ny)
I still cannot figure out, cannot fathom, how rape, a felony, is "handled internally" by committees composed of professors, appointed administrators, students, etc. Perhaps other readers can shed some light on this. Reporters simply take it for granted. A related question: Upon hearing of these allegations, why does the state stand idly by?
Mariestella (California)
I graduated from yale last year... I have to admit it was a relief to escape the title IX search and destroy culture. I'm a woman and understand the need to combat lax attitudes around sexual consent. However, I wish they had ramped up counseling and community support before deciding harsh punishments was the way to go. College is a time for sexual exploration.. It's delicate. I can't help but to feel bad for the young man who was expelled. I wonder if the outcome was even the young woman's expectation.
br (midwest)
@Mariestella,

Great observations. Even though the student body is small, Yale can be a big, scary, lonely place. The delay in reporting is troublesome. The lack of specificity is maddening. The reasons for both are explainable.

I wish that I knew more about the process, particularly when it comes to how victims are treated. I think Yale does about as well as any institution could when it comes to handling such matters, so I tend to trust the school, but I wish I had more than trust to go on. Sadly, if Mr. Montague was, truly, treated unfairly here, it would seem his only avenue for true recourse is through the courts, which Yale has, presumably, considered in reaching its decision.

What a mess.
pianowerk (uk)
Mariestella - I really can't believe you as a female(I am assuming from your name) could even say "I wonder if the outcome was even the young woman's expectation".

We don't know the full facts but really, that sentiment coming from a female tells me someone is really confused here.
mike drop (Justice Town)
The University hired an independent investigator to investigate this matter and, as reported by her, the facts not in dispute and as stated in the female student’s account are these:

– The two students developed a relationship that led to them sleeping together in Jack’s room on four occasions in the fall of 2014.

– On the first occasion, the woman joined Jack in bed and stayed the night.

– On the second occasion, she entered his bed voluntarily, removed all of her clothes and, during the night, woke him to perform oral sex.

– On the third occasion, she joined him in bed, voluntarily took off all her clothing, and they had sexual intercourse by consent.

– On the fourth occasion, she joined him in bed, voluntarily removed all of her clothes, and they had sexual intercourse. Then they got up, left the room and went separate ways. Later that same night, she reached out to him to meet up, then returned to his room voluntarily, and spent the rest of the night in his bed with him.

The sole dispute is as to the sexual intercourse in the fourth episode. She stated that she did not consent to it. He said that she did.

A year later (!) she reported the incident to a Title IX coordinator. A Title IX official – not her – filed a formal complaint with the University-Wide Committee.

Only two persons could have known what happened on that fourth night. The panel chose to believe the woman, by a “preponderance of the evidence.”
John (Georgia)
If any of Mike Drop's comment are true, right after Trump takes care of the illegal aliens, he's coming after the idiots who run Yale.
br (midwest)
Careful about what you say here. You may well be right, but we do not know everything that the university knew when it made its decision. It seems that you are selecting facts as provided by the accused. There is, I'm sure, another side of the story.

I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong here. But, if it was as simple as what you say here, there's going to be a lawsuit, and we'll then know whether it was really as straightforward as this. If it was as straightforward as this, then simply reaching a confidential settlement that allows him to return to school is going to be insufficient for Mr. Montague, who has lost his name and reputation. Unless, of course, Yale chooses to give Mr. Montague a tiny portion of the boatload of money that the university possesses if he agrees to simply go away.

The Ivies, Yale included, have a good reputation for treating students fairly and reaching just conclusions. They are not perfect, of course, but they did not acquire this reputation via eBay. When something sounds so perfectly easy to figure out as Mr. Drop has presented here, it is likely not the full and complete truth.
Sam I Am (Windsor, CT)
@John, these aren't Mike Drop's comments - they're a quote from the lawyer's statement.
@br, it may be that the lawyer's statement mischaracterizes the report of the University's investigator, but the statement says that both alleged victim and alleged perpetrator agreed on these facts. And the lawyer's statement is emphatic - there WILL be a lawsuit - but like 99% of lawsuits, it will likely be resolved prior to trial.
John D Holm (Santa Fe, NM)
It would seem that Yale's privacy policy prevents students from gaining a better understanding of what the university's policy means in practical terms. Not revealing the female student's identity certainly protects her privacy. However, not revealing the facts makes the whole case a mystery rather than a part of a necessary education process necessary to change behavior.
jen (CT)
Agreed. I learned almost nothing from this article. But I did learn that commenters have no problem rushing to judgment to defend a male student-athlete who was expelled. Most cases like this one, on campuses across the country, don't result in expulsion. There's clearly more to this story and without more of the facts, we won't know whether justice was served by Montague's expulsion. And as you say, college students won't learn the difference between right and wrong when trying to navigate their sexual relationships with vague stories like this one. Just adds fuels to the fires of those who believe that men are mistreated even if they're the ones mistreating women.
Napawright (Briarcliff Manor, NY)
You are correct that not everything is out in the open here. But here is what I am reacting to.

Point one - she crawls back into the bed with him after the alleged rape (the same night). Sorry - this is not credible behavior if you have allegedly been raped and have somewhere else to go (she did).

Point two - The allegations are made after the typical Title IX witch-hunt after a year(!) - no criminal legal complaint filed; no civil complaint in a court of law; only some bizarre administrative hearing in which real law and real legal standards of evidence do not apply and which is not conducted before a judge or jury. Title IX is designed to address gender discrimination not to uncover and prosecute sexual assault - that's why we have police and courts. Yale should not be judge and jury here.

The fact that it took her a year after her sleep-over with the alleged rapist for her to say something also makes her story far less credible. Is this merely some very late "buyer's remorse" - or worse, is it the Title IX Posse filling her head with invented nonsense so they can continue to hammer at men?

In light of this, it should not surprise you that not every one believes (at least not right now) that a women was assaulted or mistreated here.
pianowerk (uk)
"Point one - she crawls back into the bed with him after the alleged rape (the same night). Sorry - this is not credible behavior if you have allegedly been raped and have somewhere else to go (she did)."

You might not find it credible becuase your mind finds this idea Incredible. Rape and it's consequences and the behaviour of those raped in the aftermath you might find not credible. But these "not credible" things happen through fear, shame, and not being believed. If you are male, you can never put yourself in the shoes of a rape victim, and thus cannot decide what is credible or not. You need to inform yourself a bit more before coming over as sceptical - as males, it's very unlikely that we would be raped. Unless you have been through this abuse, you cannot speak about "credible" or not becuase you have no idea whatsoever how you might act after such an event.

I hope that you are never called to jury service on a rape trial - you will have set your opinions before you heard any evidence.
Sophia. (NY NY)
of course he does.
Ted G (Massachusetts)
Come down from the ivory tower. Loco parentis no longer works or is appropriate; customs change; college isn't as it was for me nearly 50 years ago; good manners and polite discourse have ended.

Now, personal behavior is a matter of evaluation and discussion.
For example, Trump and his fantasies, fabrications, imagination = lies. Clinton and his disgraceful lewd behavior.

The secretive manner that civilian colleges handle bad behavior should end. One justice system for all. Why shouldn't misbehavior and particularly potential criminal behavior be referred to police? Just as it would be @ workplace, home, or armed services location.
Teenager to whatever age at Yale gets a free pass and possible expulsion (in worst case).
If it were workplace, home, or armed services, police would be called in immediately and take over investigation and, if necessary, initiate prosecution.

If person of interest were my daughter, I'd hire top counsel and throw the proverbial book at perpetrator and Yale (for not protecting my daughter from predator).

If person of interest were my son, I'd mount an insurmountable defense to protect him from possible unsupportable charges and vengeful woman and go after Yale for creating and supporting an atmosphere where misbehavior could occur.

In any event, all parties lose time and reputation because safeguards and sufficient training was not initiated by parents before students enrolled and by Yale after students became part of college community.
Napawright (Briarcliff Manor, NY)
"The statement through Montague’s lawyer said that the charge against Montague was filed by a Title IX official after the student reported the incident to a Title IX coordinator a year after the incident.

According to that statement, an independent investigator found that on the night in question, the female student “reached out to him” after they had parted, returned to his room, and spent the night."

Let me get this straight - after the alleged "rape", the women returned to alleged rapist's room and spent the night with him? That certainly convinces me. After all what victim doesn't go back and immediately spend the rest of the nights in the arm's of her violator? Makes perfect sense.

And the alleged "rape" was reported "a year after the incident". Yep - that's also perfectly logical - what victim doesn't want to think on this a whole year before reporting a rape.

Now I begin to see why the police and D.A.'s office were not involved. This "case" would have never have been brought.

Only in the Star Chamber that constitutes a Yale review board could this "finding" have been made.

Mind you, there's no discipline reported to date from the Yale administration for the woman who assaulted (on camera) a professor whose wife she disagreed with.

I guess that will have to wait until all of Yale's male students are completely demoralized before we get around to that.
br (midwest)
@Napawright,

No one has used the term "rape." If there was sufficient evidence that Mr. Montague had raped someone, he would be charged with a crime. It doesn't have to rise to the level of rape to be inappropriate to the level that expulsion is warranted. Very few incidents of this nature that are reported to university officials result in expulsion or any discipline at all. This was reviewed by several top university officials before the decision became final.

I'm not saying they did the right thing because I don't know enough to know whether they did the right thing. This may be Duke lacrosse or it may be Duke lacrosse in reverse. At this point, anyone who says they know the answer or the right course of action, one way or another, is provably wrong.
pianowerk (uk)
"Let me get this straight - after the alleged "rape", the women returned to alleged rapist's room and spent the night with him? That certainly convinces me. After all what victim doesn't go back and immediately spend the rest of the nights in the arm's of her violator? Makes perfect sense."

You have zero understanding of rape and it's consequences. Violation is something that men very rarely experience, and thus very rarely have to live through the emotional consequences of such a violation. It may puzzle you about the timescale but I don't recall any statute of limitations on rape. The real problem is that Yale did not hand this case over to the legal authorities to handle.
Frank (Boston)
Note that the young woman in question did not file a complaint. Instead, Yale allows third-party busybodies to file complaints. Yale's Title IX Office goes out of its way to drum up business.

Yale has previously found men innocent -- and then punished them anyway.
Rachel (New Haven)
You don't understand how the system works. The student goes to the Title IX office with the complaint, and then they are given a choice to either file complaint themselves or have the Title IX official do it on their behalf, which is obviously what happened here. The student stays involved in the process the entire time either way.

Yale has also previously found men guilty and not punished them anyway, much more often. See the article you just supposedly read--very very few cases have actually resulted in expulsions.

All this information is publicly available online, so I don't know why you think you can get away with spouting nonsense.
br (midwest)
Exactly right, Rachel.

The notion that someone could have been expelled absent a complaining witness is laughable. As for Yale punishing students found innocent, there's a lot of stuff out there on the Internet. And that's just what it is: stuff. Does anyone seriously believe that Yale would go around punishing students found to be innocent of wrongdoing? That's just ridiculous. If the OP is suggesting that the university has ruled in favor of the defendant but nonetheless ordered some sort of sensitivity training or the like, that's a far, far cry from punishment. That's saying there was a close call to be made, we sided with the defendant but nonetheless did the wise thing. Expulsion, suspension or filing of criminal charges--that's punishment. Let's just be sure our terms are clear.
pianowerk (uk)
If this had happened to my daughter I would hope that some busybody at Yale would be there to report it, so that the issues would be out in the open, or as open as Yale thinks it ought to be. Frank, you need to reflect a bit before you condemn.
Jacksonian Democrat (Seattle)
I smell a Duke lacrosse repeat, a rush to judgement that will ultimately cost the university a great deal of money and a very red face. But, by those comments please don't construe this as in any way diminishing the seriousness of unwanted sexual contact on college and university campuses. Ways must be found to curtail this violence perpetrated against women. I wish I had the answer, but I don't. But sometimes, as in this case I believe, as in the case at Duke, there is a rush to judgement. If he is truly guilty after all the facts are known, then goodby and good riddance. Yale will have helped its female student population and for that they should be saluted, but let's not salute to early.
Esteban (Los Angeles)
Well, the Duke people say that Duke is the Yale of the South. Some funny Duke people say that Yale is the Duke of the North. (The architecture does look fairly similar.)
Matt B (Seattle)
Duke was modeled after Princeton. Yale has some ugly buildings
pianowerk (uk)
"a rush to judgement that will ultimately cost the university a great deal of money" Ah, money, that great American God. Important to keep these rape issues in perspective isn't it. 2015 figure shows that Yale controls endowments of $25.6 billion - I fear that any settlement (on either side) will be a mere bee sting to such an august institution. Reputational damge though, is another thing.
Zoot (North of Boston)
While we certainly don't know the entire factual background, I was struck by the following:

"The statement through Montague’s lawyer said that the charge against Montague was filed by a Title IX official after the student reported the incident to a Title IX coordinator a year after the incident."

At what point, if ever, does the staleness of the complaint become an issue? What was the history of interaction between accuser and accused in the interim?

I ask this not to be provocative, but to try to understand why matters that would be in issue in other contexts might not become issues in Title IX cases.
skv (nyc)
Do you have any evidence for your assumption that the "staleness" of the complaint, or the history of interaction, were ignored?

Or are you just assuming without evidence, based on your own idea that these issues would be disqualifying?
pianowerk (uk)
"At what point, if ever, does the staleness of the complaint become an issue?" Never - child abuse victims often wait long, long after the abuse to come forward - through fear, shame, no one listening - so no, staleness is never an issue -just your view that that sexual abuse can be somehow stale, thats an issue.
br (midwest)
What a conundrum.

No one except Montague and the alleged victim knows what happened. Teammates, understandably, want to show support for their departed colleague, and so they wear shirts without knowing what happened or even both sides of the story. The team's critics, without knowing what happened or even both sides of the story, attack the players for wearing shirts. In the absence of facts or even formal allegations, it is difficult to decide who is right, the players or their critics.

If there is any silver lining to this, it is that Yale, apparently, does take allegations of sexual misconduct seriously. Without naming names, if this, whatever it was, had occurred at a lot of Division One schools, the player would have continued playing.

Expulsion is a huge deal. Montague has counsel. And so we'll see. But, anything short of a full-blown public process, including the release of formal allegations, is not going to settle matters. If it is possible to release the formal allegations without naming the alleged victim, as well as evidence that prompted expulsion, that would seem a good thing. We might have to wait for a lawsuit. More likely, there will be some sort of settlement reached, filled with confidentiality provisions, that allows Mr. Montague to return to school and get his diploma without the truth ever coming out.
DaveD (Wisconsin)
If she's an alleged victim, he's an alleged perpetrator.
pianowerk (uk)
"If there is any silver lining to this, it is that Yale, apparently, does take allegations of sexual misconduct seriously" If Yale took this seriously they should have handed this person over to the police to let justice take its course. Nope, lets see, expulsion will teach him, won't it?
Doug Terry (Way out beyond the Beltway)

What is "rape culture"? It seems to be one of those terms that comes to be an accepted part of public dialog without ever being carefully defined. It is accepted because...it is accepted, while what it actually means can be changed with each person or group using the term.

We need to be very careful in using a blanket terminology to describe a place, a campus, a community or a nation. We need to know what we are talking about to make certain we are speaking and writing about something that has well defined limits and represents a shared understanding of behavior. Otherwise, things just get loosely classified and distorted. The belief that there is a culture of rape is what makes the individual cases charged with great social significance, but has the case been demonstrated that such a culture exists? Every incident of potential sexual aggressiveness or misconduct gets an inflated importance because of this effort to stamp out "rape culture".

Based on reading, reporting I've seen and life experiences, I have little doubt that there has been too much tolerance for the behavior of males, especially athletes, on college campuses. The problem might even be more serious for those who don't go to college, where the choice is to go to the police or keep quiet (at least those in college have a third option, even if flawed). I am highly uncertain, however, that every problem that comes along needs to be cast in the light of a sickness of the larger society.
B. Carfree (Oregon)
What is "rape culture"? I suppose the answer to that was exemplified at Yale when a group of men paraded about shouting, "No means maybe, yes means anal".

I'm pleased to see the long-standing problem of campus rape finally being addressed by some institutions. I have known far too many rape victims to dismiss these allegations out of hand. Most of these victims either had their complaints dismissed and trivialized by campus officials or knew of so many other victims who had been treated thus that they didn't even bother making a complaint.
Ross Salinger (Carlsbad Ca)
Whether guilty of not, a university is not a court of law. Rape is a crime and needs to be settled through the real courts, not kangaroo courts run by perfessers. When will this absurd practice stop? We've seen scandal after scandal, women not getting justice, false "convictions" and yet these schools seem to be unaware of the legal system in this country. If there was non-consensual sex - rape - then report it to the police and wait for it to play out in the courts. That's the way to determine guilt of innocence we have in the United States.
skv (nyc)
That's why he isn't in prison, just expelled. A private university certainly has the right to expell any student for violating their standards of behavior.
bytheway47 (Iowa)
Thank you.
pianowerk (uk)
But not prosecuted? The shame of being expelled is as powerful as being tried in a court of law?
Allen (Portland)
Sounds like guilty until proven innocent. Throw the constitution out the door
Jonathan (Amherst)
Of course it sounds like this, you are reading the account of the lawyer hired to defend Montague. And I guess I forgot about the part of the constitution where it says "private institutions must also use legal standards to uphold decisions they make that have no legal repercussions whatsoever."
imperato (NYC)
A bit strange: "after the student reported the incident to a Title IX coordinator a year after the incident."
pianowerk (uk)
"A bit strange" - please elaborate. Is there a statute of limitations on rape? Abused as a 10 year old means you can't report it when you are 30?
Sharon (Schenectady NY)
There may be a longer statute of limitations on rape - but this was not a criminal proceeding.
VJ Patel (Paramus,NJ)
If the woman really did go back into his room after the alleged 'rape', then it doesn't sound like rape. One YEAR after the incident she complained!? Title 9 is the worst piece of anti-male junk ever invented. Dozens of men's varsity programs have been terminated on the weird theory that men and women are identical. Equal; yes. Identical; no! Over thirty years ago, when I was on the Men's Tennis Club at William Paterson University (then WPC), the athletic director Art stopped us from having a NCAA varsity team on Title 9 grounds even though we has a budget, a coach and were playing a full schedule of exhibitions against varsity teams. Meanwhile, WPC had a half million dollar 'Women's Center' back then to assist women with their particular needs. There was no equivalent 'Men's Center'. Was that anti-male discrimination? Likely. But in the weird anti-male world we live in, double-standards abound.
rjb_boston (boston)
"It doesn't sound like rape" based on reading a NYT article is a silly conclusion. And "anti-male"? This is 2016, lest I remind you.
Jim (NY, NY)
VJ Patel: It sounds like you don't understand the context in which the Title IX legislation was enacted, how the legislation works, or the facts to which Title IX applies. You focus only on how men suffer terribly under title IX. Please be aware that prior to title IX, women's athletics had nowhere near the funding of men's athletics, and title IX aimed in part to balance things out. Of course this would mean that, assuming the total amount of funding remains equal, some funds that would have gone to men's athletics would go instead to women's athletics. You blame women, when you should probably blame football, since football by far eats up more of an athletics program's total budget than any other sport. Since enactment of title IX, women's participation in athletics has increased tremendously, making the program a great success on its own terms, since that was part of the legislators' objective when they enacted it.
pianowerk (uk)
Have you looked up the meaning of misogynist? I can provide some interweb search terms if you need them.
PogoWasRight (florida)
I see nothing "wrongful" about the expulsion. But a lot of "wrongful" on the part of the participants in the original event. And Ivy League, yet..........I wonder how many more college athletes are doing or have done the same thing. I would guess: lots.......by a "preponderance of the evidence".
jhussey41 (Illinois)
Sooooo, the sex was consensual for three times, but not on the fourth? Annnnnd, its a he said, she said? And the player gets the boot without a trial or hearing? Man, is Yale having a bad year or what?
David (Chicago)
I see: so by your logic if you've had sex with someone in the past, you have a right to have sex with them in the future. And if you were paying attention to the article, you'd know that the student DID have a hearing, with legal counsel present.
ehn (Eastern Shore of Maryland)
Who said he didn't have a hearing? Also there is no mention one way or the other about his past behavior or corroborating evidence. Also the only "evidence" in this article comes from the guy's lawyer and pr firm.
So try some critical reading before you jump to defend him.
Donna Gray (Louisa, Va)
Is this American justice? Innocent until proven guilty apparently has lost its meaning at Yale. The independent investigator stated the sexual encounter was initiated by the women participant. Later the two parties recall it differently. No legal charges are filed, so no unbiased investigation occurs. Why is only the man at fault?
lksf (lksf)
Given the evidence, there should have been no proceedings conducted by Yale whatsoever. And the filing of a complaint by an outsider, the secrecy of the trial, the appalling punishment meted out, and the demonisation of this young man on campus are all shameful. Shameful also that his team was chastised for showing support, because apparently, contrary opinions are no longer allowed at Yale.

From a feminist perspective, the current downward defining of "sexual misconduct" into any sexual encounter which a woman later decides she didn't like, infantises these young women and utterly denies them agency. You make sexual choices, you sometimes regret them. Take ownership and grow up.
pianowerk (uk)
Look at the research. In the VAST majority of cases of abuse, control, rape and general mysogeny, the male is at fault. This is not about equal pay or equal rights, this is about men, overwhelmingly enforcing thier powerplay on women. It matters not a jot about Yale, the US, civilised society, or any society you can think of - mostly it's males who are at fault. If you can think through that, you can then reflect on the issues on this story (and many others) and come up with a better thought than "Why is only the man at fault?". Thats just lazy thinking, if you thought at all.
pianowerk (uk)
"You make sexual choices, you sometimes regret them. Take ownership and grow up". Until it happens to YOU in all it's horribleness. Then what do you say?
Jim (Phoenix)
To start with, Yale, or any other institution, should not be in the business of adjudicating an incident when the "victim" waits a year to report the incident. This defies logic and any standard of fairness.
Roger Mexico (surf city)
Is anyone surprised that these amateurish quasi-legal kangaroo courts are happening at the Ivies, which consider themselves bellwethers of gender justice but are, in actuality, provoking a backlash among thinking people. And especially among lawyers.

Mattress Girl, Shrieking Girl, and now this.

Where in American jurisprudence is there a right to withdraw consent to intimate contact between two ostensible adults retroactively? Only in the college "codes" [sic] designed to get revenge at the patriarchy by ruining a young man's life, often, apparently, in some fit of pique for being dumped.
Eli (Boston, MA)
You may be wrong but maybe not. I do not think this can be litigated in the press. We do not know the circumstances. One can be terribly wrong without more information.

Unfortunately universities (even "good" universities) have done horrible mistakes so the only hope to know is if someone writes a book about this. The legal system cannot be trusted in a such a delicate circumstance unless a cell phone answering recorder was left running capturing incriminating or exculpatory evidence.
Dennis McSorley (Burlington, VT)
It's He said, She said ( maybe even They said)- let's have sex. Age old behavior. But now after she wants it to end- the new tactic is to bring everyone in on it and, by the way. shame the man. Women lie better than men- so Yale found she was 'truthful'. The emotional power rests with her and he is expelled?

Why do university folks have to mess with something that never would be thinkable a few generations ago.
Then families were the people who, if needed. would help with relationship advice. Men have no recourse once accused- they are sen as guilty of something. Sad for the future of honest open relationships,
Sara Tonin (Astoria NY)
Women lie better than men? Interesting concept.

I agree that the lines are very, very gray in situations like this, where sex was once consensual and then is claimed to have turned non-consensual. I don't have any easy answer, and I don't land one side or the other in this incident - I don't know anywhere near enough.

But as horrible as it is when a man is falsely accused, it is equally horrible when a woman speaks up and is branded as a liar, as only out for some sort of revenge, on top of suffering the injuries/indignities of being sexually assaulted. It is equally horrible when a woman who has been assaulted feels that she can't speak up because she will be disbelieved.

Men are injured in this process, absolutely. But so are women. The is no "winning" side/gender in this equation. University folks are "messing" with something because hiding their heads in the sand as they have done in the past hasn't stopped sexual assault. There will definitely be a period of not getting it right before we - all of us - hopefully arrive at just and beneficial ways of handling these cases, with education, prevention, protection, and punishment where merited.
DaveD (Wisconsin)
She suffered "injuries/indignities" but apparently returned to his presence later?
pianowerk (uk)
Yes - people are strange aren't they? But the fact that she did does not mean the return to "his presence" excuses whatever behaviour followed. It's all about perception and man on women abuse far outnumbers women on men abuse. You need to take that into account before making such weak statements.
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