House Republicans’ Hard-Line Immigration Stand Clashes With Trump Overture

Jan 10, 2018 · 434 comments
Sheila (3103)
The sheer stupidity of this man baby and his enablers absolutely gall me. I feel so bad for the DACA kids being used as a political football so the GOP can continue attempting to force it's draconian ideas down America's throats. Shame on them.
Greg Jones (Cranston, Rhode Island)
My family has been here since long before the Civil War. WHy don't all those who support the race based policies of Labrodor go back to where their families came from if they weren't here before we fought the great treason. You obviously don't know what it means to be an American.
Barry Williams (NY)
By all means, let's put a stake in the sand and say from this point forward, hard line on illegal immigrants. Reform the laws. Whatever. Now, how do we deal with all those already here? First off, if you're here because of something like DACA or TPS, that should be a pass. You've already become a valuable member of the community, and have been de facto forgiven if not de jure. There are not enough of these folks to make it worth getting all in a huff about how they entered and remained in the country, and lots of evidence to show that kicking them out now - after the US purposefully allowed them to stay until they are an integral part of the economy - would be highly counterproductive. The rest can be given a path to citizenship much more onerous than legal immigrants, including one strike you're out for the commission of a crime, among other provisions. No dependence on government subsidies allowed, perhaps. Anyone unwilling to weather the harsher path - goodbye! In other words, there has to be a middle ground between let 'em all in/stay and kick 'em all out immediately. Or else, enforce all other laws just as rigidly.
Bob S (New Jersey)
You have to wonder at the Democratic party. The wages of Americans have been stagnant for years and the US is now a place for cheap labor for anyone that does not have a college degree. Large numbers of Americans are dying from drugs while poverty of Americans has significantly increased. Meanwhile the primary agenda of the democratic politicians are to fight for children to have the right to enter any toilet in a public school, and to allow all illegal aliens to remain in the United States. Never mind that low wages are a result of illegal aliens who will except any wage no matter how low it is. After the 2018 election Republicans will still be in control of the Congress. There is no way for Democrats to take control of the Congress with the agenda the democratic politicians now have.
Eduardo B (Los Angeles)
Ah, the Freedom Caucus...as in free from common sense, compassion, wisdom and the values we claim to have regarding the plight of others. They are uninterested in functional problem solving, preferring mindless ideological purity that ignores facts, data and reality. Let's make 2018 a year in which we declare freedom from the Freedom Caucus. Eclectic Pragmatism — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/ Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Phyliss Dalmatian (Wichita, Kansas)
So when will Mexico send payment for the Wall??? Please Proceed, GOP. November.
Kai (Oatey)
If your tail light is broken you get a fine. But you can employ thousands of undocumented aliens and all you see is profit. Who is the criminal here?
lftash (NY)
We can only hope the Democratic Party walks softly and lets the "Great" Grand Old Party "shoot themselves in the foot"! VOTE 2018
John Stanton (USA)
The fair thing to do is deal with Republicans. Dems want DACA, which is reasonable. Reps want to limit immigrations, also reasonable. So let's bargain....you approve DACA, we agree to both your stupid wall and to also reduce (or at least extremely vet) immigrants and cut out the H1B ripoffs…..
Katrina (New York)
Illegal immigrants aside for a moment, our lawmakers must find ways to stop legal immigrants from ripping off the entitlements by transferring all their money to their successful professional children's bank accounts and then pleading poverty, thereby raping Medicaid and other safety net programs. They come here with plenty of money, transfer it to their grown childrens' accounts. This is one of the reasons why many Americans are becoming increasingly anti-immigrant. It's not just the poor illegals who are desperate to survive, it's the well off or downright rich foreigners from Asia, Southeast Asia and the Middle East who couldn't care less about America or its values of democracy and rule of law. Then you have the legal immigrants from Russia and the former soviet bloc who know more about how to qualify to entitlements than any Mexican or citizen born here ever will. We need to spend more time catching and penalizing these rip off artists and con artists from squeezing us dry without caring one hoot about America.
Stephanie Bradley (Charleston, SC)
Here's something that should appear in every single news story on immigration — Trump's own rank, hypocritical hiring of foreign workers! For example, cooks, housekeepers, and other foreign workers for his Mar-a-Lago club and his other venues. It's a scandal. He rails against immigrants, and claims he supports American workers but, then, turns around and hires cheap foreign labor! He hires them via H2-B waivers, which requires that employers certify they could not find any U.S. workers willing to take the jobs. However, all that's required is posting two ads-- which Trump buries in the back pages of a local paper. Worse, the only contact info provided is a fax #! He and his press secretary should be questioned about this at every appearance -- as should his minions and Republican politicians. See, e.g., “Donald Trump Turned Down 94.4 Percent of American Job Applicants, Applied for Hundreds of ‘H’ Visas Instead”. “Surprise! Donald Trump is a rank hypocrite on immigration”. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/431908/donald-trump-immigration-hyp... More sources in next post.
William Case (United States)
Trump businesses hire H2-B workers to stay competitive with other businesses that hire H2-B workers. The same reason businesses hire undocumented workers. He wants H2-B waivers reduced and illegal immigrants deported. Makes sense.
Detached (Minneapolis)
In a few years we will be begging immigrants to move to the US to earn wages and to do jobs that our white baby boom will be unwilling or too old to do. If a wall is built, in a few years Republicans will be campaigning to tear it down.
William Case (United States)
The youngest baby boomers are in their 50s and many are in their 70s. As the Baby Boomers continue to retire, we have the option of increasing legal immigration quotas to replace them or letting the economy shrink along with the population. Many people think the population needs to reduced. Do we have to keep despoiling the environment to make the economy grow?
markpatrick (chatham)
Raul hasn't been seen on tv lately. Just trying to make himself relevant again.
Barbara (SC)
"“I mean, I will be signing it. I’m not going to say, ‘Oh, gee, I want this or I want that,’” he [Trump] said." This is a large part of a larger problem. Trump has no policy position on anything much other than the "big, beautiful" wall that he wants. This is not leadership. However, in this case, given his lack of understanding and frequent mind-changing, it might be better that he is not a true leader. Otherwise, who knows what he would lead us into. Things are bad enough already.
Fearless Fuzzy (Templeton)
In 1986, Reagan signed a big immigration bill that promised tighter border security, employers would face strict penalties for hiring illegals, and amnesty for illegals who arrived before 1982. Fast forward, the border leaked like a sieve and American employers were hiring them like crazy for cheap labor. 300 arrested at one poultry plant alone in 2015. Yes, they used fake documents so the employer could say they were legally going through the motions, but the employers knew. I remember the story of a Florida contractor who was set to do a job with American workers and then suddenly laid them off because a dozen Central American illegals said they would do the job for half the cost. Illegals come for work and/or to escape crime and poverty; they don’t come here because they cherish American ideals and government and have dreamed of becoming Americans. So, have an immigration policy that is reasonable and appropriate to our national situation, AND THEN ENFORCE IT. The main enforcement should not be an expensive wall, but a positive way to determine immigration status and then HARSH penalties for any employer who hires an illegal. Because of the vacillation of enforcement, such as the Salvadorans have experienced, they’ve been here too long to send home. The kids are grown, they speak English, it would be torture to go back now. If Reagan had followed up on the border security and enforcement aspect of his 1986 amnesty, we wouldn’t be here today.
James Bowen (Lawrence, Kansas)
The President and Congress need to end chain migration, end the visa lottery, and mandate E-Verify instead of passing another amnesty for illegal immigrants.
Greg Jones (Cranston, Rhode Island)
I find the hard line nativist position of these comments to be surprising. Possibly their prevalence is no condition. Trump's plan all along was to get the Dems to refuse to trade DACA for the wall. Then he could have blame the destruction of these 800 thousnd lives as a commitment to illegals who had never been here. Now we can see the gimmick here.....get the Dems to reject the package and no one needs to know that the majority of the House doesnt really want to DACA at any price. SO now they have shown their hand. The many poster who find this reasonable are those who have bought the white nationalism of the Alt Right and now it seems like sweet reason. No signing on to an immigration policy that would make Richard Spenser proud is not a way to take the house. My guess is that the bots who generated much of this were designed to move the goal posts. Just as I have always known there will be no agreement ad the Trump patrols and their paramilitary bands will begin a race war. This is the real Donald Trump
lansford (Toronto, Canada)
Day care workers, live in domestic workers, those who care for elderly parents, I say, kick them all out. Hotel workers, farm workers etc., I say, kick them all out, after all it’s the Christian thing to do. I get it.
ann (Seattle)
Langford, since the unemployment figure is low, you may not be aware that tens of thousands of our own citizens are unemployed. These are people who are in their prime working years, but have been unemployed for so long that they are no longer counted in the official figure. A great many more are under-employed. Most of them would work in day care centers and do domestic and hotel work. I'm not sure about farm work, but, according to the PEW Center, only 5% of illegal migrants work on farms. I think we could re-start the "bracero" program with Mexico that allowed farm workers to come here temporarily. Once the work was done, the workers returned home to their families in Mexico. Other than farm work, most Americans would take the jobs now held by illegal migrants. Employers might have to raise wages or improve working conditions, but isn't this what we want? We have been trying to raise the minimum wage that is so low due at least partly to the huge numbers of illegal migrants who compete for jobs. A smaller labor pool would mean workers could again ask for raises and better working conditions. The people who work for low wages depend heavily on government support. This includes the undocumented as there are a multitude of programs that help them. In essence, taxpayers are subsidizing everyone who hires an undocumented worker. We, taxpayers, are also trying to help the tens of thousands (and their children) who have been displaced by the undocumented.
Ripple in Still Water (The here and now. )
Wages might then rise to Canadian levels and benefits, people who are sitting on the work sidelines might suddenly find it less motivating to be idle. Prices would rise for hotel stays, housekeepers and domestic servants, and some produce. Of course, no left winger would want *that* to happen.
ann (Seattle)
lansford, the U.S should adopt your country’s immigration system. Canada has managed to keep out all but a couple hundred thousand illegal migrants while our official number is 11 - 12 million. Since there are a multitude of reasons why an undocumented migrant might not answer the census or might tell the census that a lower number of people are living in an apartment than are actually staying there, the chances are that the number of undocumented migrants in the U.S. is considerably higher than the typically stated figures. Your country also restrict non-refugee immigration to those who could easily assimilate and who would contribute to the economy. We need to follow Canada’s lead in restricting immigration to those who could help our country rather than giving legal status to those who will likely remain heavily dependent on government services and subsidies for the rest of their lives.
John Doe (Johnstown)
If good cop bad cop works with stubborn kids, maybe it will work ever better in partisan paralyzed Washington DC.
dan ehrlich (london uk)
Right from the start decades ago the problem has never been the illegals, but employers having the welcome sign out for cheap labor. If the government had come down on Macdonalds, etc, decades ago, the problem would not be so serious now.
Bob S (New Jersey)
APO JC NJ all that competition to work in the fields picking produce - now white people can get off welfare and work for a living. ..................................................... Black Americans and all other Americans have lost decent wage because of businesses are using illegal immigrants that will accept cheap wages. Wages have been stagnant for years since businesses are using illegal immigrants. Most of the construction work, when there is not Unions, is now being done by illegal immigrants and black and white Americans have lost jobs in construction. By the way the foreigners that work the fields picking product are not illegal and only stay in the US during the harvest period.
ann (Seattle)
Most readers probably missed yesterday’s NYT article titled" ‘Trump Effect’ Wears Off as Migrants Resume Their Northward Push”, which says "Just months after border apprehensions hit a 17-year low, which administration officials proudly celebrated as a “Trump effect,” the number of migrants trying to enter the United States has been surging, surpassing 40,000 along the Southwest border last month, more than double the springtime numbers, according to new data from the Homeland Security Department." Virtually every one of these illegal migrants has little or no education, and so, would be unable to find a job where he or she could earn enough that would not leave him or her heavily dependent on our government’s services and subsidies. In addition, once in our country, most of them have multiple children who also become overly-dependent on government support. How can we educate and otherwise support our own population to a level where everyone could lead a decent life, if we have to accept and support a continual and ever-increasing number of uneducated, unskilled people from poor countries around the world?
Oakbranch (CA)
We have Trump as president today largely because mainstream America found it disgusting that Democrats wanted more and more rights and benefits for illegal immigrants, while giving the cold shoulder to hardworking and/or suffering working class Americans. So the Democrats really need to learn a lesson about the immigration issue. I'm a Democrat but I have struggled to vote for Democrats due to their irresponsible support of illegal immigrants. Just stop supporting the "rights" of illegal immigrants to come to this country, get jobs here, get free education and medical care and driver's licenses, insurance, and all else here. It really sickens mainstream America to see the Democrats coddling illegal immigrants in that way -- particularly when mainstream America is suffering. As well, we need to stop ignoring the overpopulation issue. Our nation is overpopulated. California in particular has gone from 20 million residents to 40 million residents in only 30 years. A large number of these residents are illegal immigrants. This huge increase in population is in part responsible for the housing crisis and high cost of housing in California, as well as the homeless crisis on the West Coast. Cutting down on illegal immigration completely, and deporting as many illegal immigrants as possible, while then reducing overall immigration, can help with this serious issue of overpopulation and all the problems that result from that.
uga muga (Miami Fl)
It would be nice to disassociate the illegal and legal immigration issues from emotions, bigotry and politics. That might require a true alien intervention; some intelligence not from this planet. Perhaps there are two immigration questions. One is economics and the other is humanitarian. The latter may include absorbing the costs for mitigating U.S foreign policy malfeasance or failures from the past. These failures could be addressed stateside with immigration accomodations and/or with robust aid and security-assistance programs in the victimized countries. As for economics, apparently there are needs for a flow of ongoing immigration. Therefore, over time, those illegally in the country could provide and have provided for them evidence-based justification for remaining legally. This might preclude a path to citizenship but might allow residence, work permits or some other authorization. Clearly, legalized immigration of any kind must ask if citizens are in fact being hurt economically by the presence of foreigners. That's the old is-there-anyone-who's-suited-for-that-job argument. Unfortunately, it does appear to make sense that public benefits and free services for illegal immigrants, and their families, who don't pay any taxes need to be eliminated or restricted. Border control? Yes of course. The wall? Articles referencing those on the front lines say it's stupid and other measures related to reality need to be fortified not reduced to help pay for the boondoggle.
Karl Napp (Fort Myers)
America is made by immigrants. Cutting down the immigration will tear down the economy and push the US far behind the biggest player of the world. Raul ! Labrador should think about his own roots. A relatively young politician but blind like a member of a 85 plus community. Worldwide it's now common to stigmatize foreign people immigrants and strange looking citizens. So the US too. The Republican Party should change his name. POP (Populism Party) would be more correct.
VS (Boise)
As an immigrant I can see myself supporting many of these provisions: onus on the employers to hire only legal immigrants, border security, restricting family based sponsorship to spouses and minor children. I think they are all reasonable.
Ben Lieberman (Massachusetts)
This article is based on the unproven assumption that there is a real Trump overture. It's frankly astonishing to see reporters fall for the same ploy over and over again. After months of inflammatory, contradictory statements a brief moment of managed stagecraft. Please stop falling for the reality tv stunts,
Valery Gomez (Los Angeles)
The US is rapidly becoming overpopulated - especially in California, New York and Texas. Fine-tuning and tightening our excessively lax immigration system is decades overdue. Chain migration hurts us far more than it helps us.
David Farrar (Georgia)
Pres. Trump should immediately send a message to Congress that unless this talk of linking DACA amnesty with 'passage' of a national budget is stopped, he will not support any amnesty of any kind.
Scott (Charlottesville)
Since 1965, immigration to the US has increased the population by an additional 75 million persons over what would have otherwise happened (http://www.pewhispanic.org/2017/05/03/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/). Legal immigration per year is 1 million. That does not seem sustainable to me, and I would like my progeny to live in the US that I know, and not an overpopulated one. The country belongs to its current citizens, and they do not have an obligation to cede their country to another, and they have a right to set numerical limits and to choose who enters, just like any other country. Collectively, we get to decide what we want, and I do not want North America to be overpopulated. It is my right to be selfish in this way.
Colona (Suffield, CT)
People forget that W had an immigration bill with a path to citizenship in 2006 but a minority of his own party in the house stopped it. It had bi partisan support and would have passed. It's time for the gop to stop obstructing the passage of need legislation and to grow up and start acting like a governing party, not a group of poorly behaved 4 year olds. The reps need to rid themselves of Bannon think not just the Steve himself.
William Case (United States)
Americans are more interested in stopping future illegal immigration than deported illegal immigrants already here. We should impose even “harsher” anti-immigration measures and immigration reforms than those being proposed by Republican hardliners, But once these harsher measures are in effect, we should permit DACA enrollees and their families, along with illegal immigrants who are parents of U.S.-born children, to stay. Since illegal immigrants grow old and die like non-immigrant Americans, within a generation or two, there would be very few illegal immigrants. Then the harsh immigration measures wouldn’t seem so harsh, since there would very few illegal immigrants to deport.
TJ (Virginia)
I would actually support greater control at our southern border. A porous border that renders immegration policy irrelevant (because the immigrants arent being regulated by the policy) is not safe, strategic, or sustainable. But when the GOP then says they're also going to dramatically curtail legal immegration, that's foolish (we need and want immigrants) and it begins to reveal an underlying racist and xenophobic agenda. I'd say we should control our borders and then lay over that clear and predictable immegration policies that are both strategic and compassionate.
Lynn in DC (um, DC)
I see nothing "hard-line" about the House Republican bill. It is a good plan. Ending chain migration is good and giving DACA enrollees the right to remain in the US but not giving them a path to citizenship (they are illegal aliens after all) strikes a fair balance. The Democrats are in a good place right now. They have had electoral successes in Alabama and Virginia, however that would all disappear if they chose to shut down the government over DACA. That would be so huge a mistake that I am surprised anyone is seriously considering doing such a thing. If they do, say hello to no Democrat wins in 2018 and the reelection of Trump in 2020. Guys (and gals), this is not the hill to die on.
Bob S (New Jersey)
Jeff California 6 minutes ago I disagree. We have the problem of illegals doing the work because Americans will not take those jobs. ........................................... Give Americans a fair wage and they will take jobs. Businesses are only offering minimum wages since they can easily get illegal immigrants that will take cheap pay. Meanwhile Americans have joined the military since they can find work that pays a fair wage. There are no jobs for Americans so it is not a surprise that they will take the chance to join the military. In the past Americans took the dirty work because the pay was more than minimum wages. Now all the dirty work is minimum wages since businesses are using illegal immigrants that will for anything, so there is no incentive to take the dirty.
miguele3 (san leandro)
I can't help but think that nationalism and ethnocentric behavior will put the US behind the free world. We already have abdicated our position as leader in the free world with continued isolationism. The GOP is lost on their former positions of globalization and a free market. Now it closed borders and attacking our allies.
Just Me! (Minnesota)
The visa lottery adds valuable, educated people to the USA with occupations that are needed. Ending this program would no longer keep the balance of immigration in sync. One may add or subtract countries and or occupations from the list if this is the problem, but ending this program would have a negative impact on the country. As for DACA, have these kids be on DACA status for 10 years with “good character” and then provide a step to citizenship. People, we are all immigrants and please think of family values and what we as a country stand for.
Kjensen (Burley Idaho)
The greatest irony for me, is that Mr. Labrador was an immigration attorney in the Caldwell / Boise Idaho area. Through my practice, I got to know him very well, and I have been simply amazed and gobsmacked by his change in philosophy. He was a very vocal advocate for immigrants and made appearances in immigration court defending individuals who were subject to removal from the United States. I always found him to be knowledgeable and zealous in looking out for his clients. So his current position has come to me as a great surprise, that he has become the most strident voice for restrictive immigration measures, and an outright rejection of the DACA predicament. I'm almost willing to wager that he has represented DACA individuals in the past, as anybody who has practiced immigration law in the last 15 to 20 years has dealt with their particular situation. I guess political expediency always trumps (pun intended) common decency.
RenegadePriest (Wild, Wild West)
You stated the reason in your first sentence - He is a lawyer! Then he became a politician . Both groups work for pay and their positions are predacated upon that money.
Sarah (Washington)
Whatever happened to compromise, to working for the common good? The late senator Ted Kennedy was a master legislator and that's how he accomplished his goals: by "working across the aisle", refusing to see the other party as "The Enemy", and setting achievable goals reached incrementally, step by step. Congress could achieve wonders if they gave up the "my way or the highway" attitude. Some 300 + million of us would be ever so grateful....
Judith Stern (Philadelphia)
Whether through Trump or Congress, we know that we are facing regressive decisions on EVERYTHING. Republicans are having a picnic, doing what they could not do before - ensure that President Obama accomplished NOTHING and favor corporations and their big donors above all else. I am waiting for the Democrats to play to THEIR base, which is a large one and represents the majority of this country. Stop reacting, stop complaining - create reasonable, humane, and forward-looking bills.
Ripple in Still Water (The here and now. )
No matter what policy we adapt, job #1 is get an accurate tally of how many people are here illegally. Policy, if that total is 5 million, may look different from policy for 20 million. Right now, we're shooting in the dark. Therefore, the first order of business is to create a national registry of anyone in the country who is not a citizen or a green-card holder, with biometric cards for these folks (and biometrics/DNA gathered from anyone who enters the country). Failure to register would be grounds for immediate deportation for the person and all immediate family members who are not citizens/green card holders, and exclusion from any liberalization of immigration laws. A year should be plenty of time to accomplish this. Then, we can talk.
Steve (Seattle)
Threatening to hold up a government funding bill is a Republican tactic the Dems should not stoop to. Democrats have had plenty of time to think through an immigration proposal, where is it?
vulcanalex (Tennessee)
Not "hard line" but rather comprehensive. Not this bill is not the one the president was talking about, that will be for the near future. If you want more than just the daca individuals you will have to give more than what was talked about in the meeting. Very simple!!!
Louvisa (USA)
The Dems have lost their minds on this issue. They think anything short of open borders is hard line. Meanwhile, we're at nearly 400 million people. When does mindless population growth for them end?
Robert (New York)
Check your facts. We are quite a bit away from 400 million people. The Census estimates around 328 million, up from 308 million in 2010. https://www.census.gov/popclock/
Ripple in Still Water (The here and now. )
The larger point is true. Name one new bold anti-illegal immigration law that the Democrats are proposing. Answer: none.
AirMarshalofBloviana (OvertheFruitedPlain)
If liberals believe that Trump didn't really mean that he would sign a bill that Congress puts on his desk then they are mistaken. Democrats are about to scuttle a huge opportunity for far more Dreamers than I had hoped would be given a Congressional pardon. Trump simply wants Congress to do the work American citizen taxpayers righteously demand them to do. We are fed up, git-r-done.
Elizabeth (Roslyn, NY)
The GOP hard liners feel embolden with Trump in the Oval Office. Never mind that he doesn't have a good, thinking, educated mind. Not necessary for their needs. The GOP playbook which demonizes all immigrants is coming to the tipping point. For over 40 years, America has been fed the racist, bigoted lies made up by the GOP about immigrants from all being lazy takers to hardened criminals to scheming boozers. Even with statistics, it is hard to find the truth about the "harmful" effects of having legal or illegal immigrants present within our borders. Trump's personal hatred used the GOP agenda to his advantage in gaining the nomination. Now "Real" Americans are screaming to throw everybody out. How can any legislation be passed in this atmosphere of hate? What is the reality of the entire immigration program and its effect upon the Born In The USA crowd? We are all functioning in a hyper Trumpiam emotional minefield where democratic ideals and American exceptionalism have fallen away. The entire discussion is broken and unfair. Trump's overt hate will not produce meaningful legislation and America will also be hurt redefining immigration law under the present administration.
RenegadePriest (Wild, Wild West)
Excuse me, but President Obama did not care enough about the issue of DACA to actually do immigration reform when he had control of the US House and US Senate. And yet because President Trump is willing to make deals to reform the immigration system, you say he doesn't have a 'good, thinking, educated mind'. Realize that no reform comes without 9 Democratic Senators willing to support any Republican bill. If there is no reform, the blame, once again, will be on the dead Democratic party.
Vernon (Brisol City)
A potential for dissension in the GOP ranks, perchance, eh? Oh, yes.To exemplify, when Trump was fumbling during his recent cabinet meeting on DACA and CIR (comprehensive immigration reform) talks, Kevin McCarthy of CA, dogmatically and almost impetuously, stormed into the discussion arena soon after Diane Feinstein wanted clarification on the DACA and border security issues. Next thing one knew, Trump was all over the place as regards his ephemeral and ever-changing stance on every issue, including, but not limited to, immigration, among other things. The TV anchors pounced on his fickle fettle, and took him to task. Unfazed, Trump touted his temper-tantrum ridden tirades about his ''tremendous achievements'' hitherto, in stock market numbers, and the GDP growths. This guy's IQ needs a head-to-toe assessment every so often as to ascertain his mental faculties. OK, it ain't gonna happen, one has to admit, rather painfully. His ardent and fervent supporters will become irascible at this suggestion, anyways. Whenever Trump-supporting news analysts in CNN or MSNBC start spewing out venom and regurgitating alternative facts, some of the viewers squirm and scream inside their minds. Immigration polemics on DACA and TPS will continue to be rampant in the air, and the skirmishes among a few GOP members will, then, be a treat to watch for many a neutral observer. This will, forsooth, keep the temporary migrants on the tenterhooks for now. What a mess!
Julie (Cleveland Heights, OH)
Trump is all about negotiations: call his bluff Dems and shut the government down if necessary. DACA is way too important- 800,000 lives are in balance.
Angry (The Barricades)
It always amazes me how immigration articles, more than any other, draw the largest number of angry conservative commentors, spouting largely insane ideas. Why is it these articles that draw so much ire and nonsense?
Alex (Albuquerque)
Because a large percentage of progressives and Independents, including myself, believe in enforcing immigration laws for the good our nation and environment.
GRH (New England)
I think you would be surprised. There are millions and millions of "Barbara Jordan" Democrats and Independents who supported the recommendations and conclusions of African-American, Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Jordan when she led Bill Clinton's Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform. President Clinton and the corporatist GOP of the mid 1990's betrayed and abandoned that same Commission and dropped many of the recommendations when it came time to sign legislation (i.e., chain migration reform, among many others). They sold out to Chinese campaign donors & to lobbies like La Raza and ignored concerns expressed by once core Democratic constituencies like union workers; environmentalists (who recognize damage from population growth & sprawl); public school teachers & administrators sinking from weight of illegal alien education mandates, etc. Plenty of Democrats and Independents recognize that it is Republicans like Senators Tom Cotton and David Perdue who are now picking up where Barbara Jordan left off, and who still support those exact same recommendations and conclusions from the mid 1990s. Ignoring it for 20 + years only made the problem worse. This is why Trump was elected.
Etaoin Shrdlu (San Francisco)
It's about time. eVerify is the real "Wall". It finally provides penalties for employers who employ illegals. IIlegal immigration would end overnight if the president of Tyson foods did a perp walk in an orange jumpsuit for hiring illegals.
TonyZ (NYC)
But e-Verify would hurt his bottom line. If enacted how many businesses will go out of business? I am thinking of many restaurants for a start. Cheap labor has its benefits.
Dd (Ky)
Who is going to build the wall... our hard working white laborers . That’s a joke . How about our hard working dreamers .... that is the truth not fake news
Duncan Lennox (Canada)
The USA , like most developed nations, does NOT have a replacement growth rate to fund the retirement of it`s existing citizens. A birth rate of 2.1 children per female is the status quo replacement rate. Germany understands this and looks at immigration as the way to achieve a future for it`s retirees. The GOP wants only people that look like them (WASPs) to be allowed to immigrate but with the vile GOP & Trump at the helm & their policies of preventing universal healthcare ,high education costs & low quality education per international ratings , crazy religious people (46% Americans Believe In Creationism According To Latest Gallup Poll, huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05 the attraction is waning fast. eg. Think Trump. America , a country of immigrants, that is under the control of a barbarian minority.
RenegadePriest (Wild, Wild West)
Uhmm, poster from Canada, so not really a valid American viewpoint. The Republican Party does not care about race, just votes. As a country, we are trying to resolve a problem that President Obama would not deal with, he would not pursue the legislative remedy in the Democratic-controlled Congress. Fine, DACA as an executive order was a good short-term band- aid. Just because President Trump has the kojones to tackle the tough issues, Canadian citizens can call him a barbarian? Don't think so!
Greg Jones (Cranston, Rhode Island)
The one joyous thing is to think of all those Trump voters in mobile homes who will be forced to eat dog food if they get the very racist policies that they seem to want
MM (NY)
Give it a rest. A barbarian minority? How about those Indian immigrants that Disney replaced American workers with at a fraction of the salary? I bet you love that. And those replaced American workers? They had to train the Indian replacements. Look it up and learn. Your simple narrative breaks under the slightest scrutiny.
DPS (NM)
Please, all who are reading the comment section here, also read statistical data found here: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/25/key-facts-about-unauthor... 690,000 young people have made an effort to address their “illegal” presence in the US and because they have they are now identified and are being targeted. Pew Research estimates there are 11 million total undocumented or “illegal” immigrants who represent about 3.4% of the total US population. I do not envy the job our lawmakers must address to find solutions to the problem of bringing them to legal status or to ejecting them. Ejecting 11 million through deportation as the present laws would require would be a legal maze for decades and would cost an inestimable amount of money so should not be recommended. Further, targeting the 690,000 DACA filers is tantamount to denial of due process. And, yes the laws of our country need to be observed by them as well as our lawmakers and cannot be put aside simply because some are angry with 3.4% of the folks living on US land. The DACA filers have been chosen as targets to bring the illegal immigration arguments to the table and now the real hard work must begin for our congress. In the meantime the emotion spent here is a waste of time and is being used to distract attention from situations that can be dealt with immediately and legally.
RenegadePriest (Wild, Wild West)
DACA is only a small portion of the issue. The DACA participants are not being 'targeted'. They are being used to bring an issue that President Obama created, then ignored. DACA is a great program, although it should be viewed as a band-aid. President Obama should have introduced legislation to codify the DACA executive order when he had control of the US House and Senate. Americans need to view everything that President Trump does as a prelim to negotiations. He wants the opposition to lose their minds. Then he can propose almost anything less than the outrageous position he first took and everybody goes 'OMG we will accept that.' I do the same thing if I ever buy a car from a dealer.
Valery Gomez (Los Angeles)
We could easily repatriate 60% of unauthorized foreign nationals over the next decade by simply eliminating their access to employment, healthcare, education, banking and other privileges that should not be afforded to lawbreakers.
SBPabloP (Santa Barbara, CA)
I'm tired of the republicans beating up on democrats and using issues we care about to achieve their greedy goals. The republicans are in charge now, let them make the decisions they want, but I see no reason to bargain with them, we always end up hosed and being blamed for their mess. Let's go hands free and stop bargaining with them, they can pass whatever legislation they want that doesn't require democratic votes. Then whatever fall out we have to deal with is clearly their doing and not bipartisan.
Angry (The Barricades)
When the Conservatives show they're dedicated to doing the same for all the US citizens in need of food, shelter, or medical care, maybe your ultimatum will have some merit. Until then, don't complain about the splinter in your neighbor's eye...
palma (TX)
Why not offer path to citizenship to Dreamers but be OK with offering visas to pregnant Russian women coming to the US to give birth so their children will be US citizens and later grant their parents US citizenship? Does the fact they are staying at Trump resorts while waiting for delivery day the explanatory difference?
mihir1310 (Pittsburgh, PA / Mumbai , India)
Do the pregnant Russian women enter the US illegally, presumably sailing on a raft across the Atlantic ocean? Or do they usually have a valid US visa stamped on the passports before boarding a plane, admitted into the US after the immigration officers confirms the visa and stamps an I94 ?
Adrian (Philadelphia)
This whole immigration mess is of our own doing. For years employers have exploited illegal immigrants and Congress and the rest of us have turned a blind eye. Now, all of a sudden, they all have to leave (though I don't see Trump going after the employers). If all the illegals were kicked out tomorrow houses would not get built, crops would not get picked and toilets would not get cleaned. We are now as dependent on them as they are on us. We have to fix the mess, but penalizing the 'Dreamers' is not a good way to start.
Robert (Seattle)
House Republicans have given us the immigration plan that Mr. Trump campaigned on. It is nothing like Trump's bipartisan "performance" two days ago. It is, however, just like his racist and xenophobic campaign. With this plan, we are reminded that Trump's success on this his only consistent theme as president was built on a foundation of longstanding Republican racial and xenophobic For Trump Republicans, some immigrants are more equal than others. The cruelty and stupidity are obvious. Recent ICE policies have been brutal. The Republican plan would only make them more so. The ICE for-profit prisons are inhumane. Imprisoning minors in them would be a crime. Families and young people will be sent back to the most dangerous countries in the world where murder and rape are commonplace. Young people whose only home is America will be, in essence, exiled to a place they have never known. The Republican threat to deport these folks is indecent blackmail. As for the stupidity, these folks have employment and crime rates that put American citizens to shame. They have attended and done well in our best universities. They value education and hard work. They pay far more in taxes than they receive in government benefits. And, finally, everybody knows that the wall will do nothing. For instance, most of these who are here without permission have overstayed their visas.
Occupy Government (Oakland)
Donald doesn't care about policy or detail. He wants another win. Anything he can sign to show his administration isn't mired in tweets, executive orders and reactionary judicial confirmations. We all heard Donald shove this issue onto Congress. Whatever you do, i will rubber stamp. Once again, the nation turns its lonely eyes toward a recumbent congress.
Jeff (California)
It is against the law to hire any illegals but the Republicans are not proposing to beef up the prosecution of employers who hire illegal aliens. to stop people from coming her illegally, we must vigorously prosecute and jail those employers who hire them. But if we do, The Country will take a devastating economic hit because Americans refuse to take the jobs in Agriculture, construction, the Heath care and the "Hospitality Industries that the illegals are no doing. Where are the ex-coal miners? Not moving to California to work in the fields but sitting on their butts, taking welfare and voting for Trump.
Mark R. (Rockville, MD )
Lots of long-term damage to America from slashing immigration: Slower labor force growth make the growth rates assumed in the recent tax cuts impossible. The crisis in Social Security will come sooner. Refusal to allow a immigrant to sponsor a brother or a child over 18 will make it harder to recruit talent. The US is far from the only desirable destination for high skilled labor. We will be less innovative. Already too insular, we will become less connected to the opportunities in the rest of the world (and less prepared for the dangers). This type of "nationalism" makes America a lesser place.
Valery Gomez (Los Angeles)
On the other hand, slower population growth is good for our environment, our carbon footprint, the sustainability of our natural resources and overall quality of life.
Jon (NYC)
When considering immigration the word to keep in mind is automation. Quite simply we don't need more unskilled laborers as jobs they're qualified for quickly disappear. Even jobs that are currently booming, such as driving cabs and car services, will soon disappear to driverless cars. And as automation starts to replace even low-level white collar jobs like data entry, we're going to see a massive spike in unemployment. Universal basic income is an unproven concept at best, which will certainly not be politically feasible for newcomers here illegally, and might not even be fiscally achievable anyway. In that light, Republicans are right to end chain migration and the diversity visa lottery program. We need to prioritize migration for skilled tech workers and those refugees who are truly in need of asylum - not economic migrants who will pass through multiple other "safe" countries before reaching the U.S. Young men from different cultures who lack jobs and the security and cultural integration that a meaningful place in the economy can provide will become disillusioned, frustrated, and prone to recruitment by gangs and even terrorist organizations as France and German have already found with their unassimilated immigration policies. On the left and the right, we need to put aside the emotional rhetoric and consider the situation logically.
janye (Metairie LA)
Why should anyone pay attention to anything President Trump says? Soon after he says something it is contradicted by Republican congressional representatives or by the president himself.
Donna Zuba (kennewick)
Don't you find it odd that Republicans are against "illegal" immigration which allows farmers and other businesses to hire the cheapest labor possible and drive the standard of living down? I do think the Dems need to stay focused on the DACA kids so they don't also look like they support illegal immigration as some have pointed to in these comments. I don't think they support illegal immigration but are looking for a way to help the current DACA recipients.
Kurt Schoeneman (Boonville)
Looks good to me. The world and the U.S. have changed. The 1965 immigration act no longer works. It is not possible in todays world to provide medical and educational along with other services and welcome people from anywhere.
Bob S (New Jersey)
The democratic party won government elections by supporting working Americans. They did not win elections for being "liberals". The democratic party will continue to lose government elections since they no longer support working Americans. Working Americans are not in favor of stagnant wages that have resulted from the cheap labor of illegal immigration.
John Brews ..✅✅ (Reno NV)
“Democrats are pushing for a deal on DACA by Jan. 19, when government funding is set to expire. The stakes are significant: If talks break down and lawmakers cannot, at a minimum, approve another stopgap spending bill, much of the government would shut down in less than two weeks.” Hey, Dems go for it. Let the GOP shut it down! It’s great to see them do something, eh! And make sure that the GOP Congress is writ large as responsible for it. Let’s see the GOP as the collection of heartless extorting thugs they are, trying to cudgel Dems with their own humanity. Threatening deportation of 800,000 young people here entirely innocently and already contributing to America in myriad ways. Not out of principle but as leverage.The GOP - always on the side of good sense and humanity!
William Case (United States)
Your are confused. It is Democrats threatening to shut down government if they don't get their way on DACA, not the Republicans. The Republican would pass a spending bill regardless of what happens on DACA.
Oswald Spengler (East Coast)
The House Republican hard-liners should stand on principle. This means revoking the immigration status of their own ancestors, giving up their citizenship, and self-deporting. The nation would be better for it.
David Gage ( Grand Haven, MI)
I am amazed that there is not one elected official who wants to properly deal will the illegal immigration issue. Taking the following approach would not only work it would cost all of us a lot less: First, change the 14th amendment that states all persons born in the US shall become citizen when it should be those born of US citizens shall become US citizens. Next, the illegal immigrants shall not receive any government covered health care or welfare. Next, the illegal immigrants shall not be allowed to use the public schools. Next, the illegal immigrants will not be able to get driver's licenses. Next, the illegal immigrants will not be allowed to join the military. Finally, the costs related to transporting the illegal immigrants will fall into the hands of their nation of origin where these costs will be included in their embassy costs in the USA.
Angry (The Barricades)
Oh look, it's a list of terrible, largely infeasible ideas
Michèle P (DC)
Exactly who would this work for? Not farmers. Not factory owners. Not families. Not anyone with a heart or a conscience. Oh- I guess it works for the tiny group of white bigots who are supporters of the House Freedom Caucus.
David Gage ( Grand Haven, MI)
Allowing part time workers is not impossible. Go to the border today and you can find groups of men who want the part-time jobs. Those who would hire these temporary workers would have to cover their transport from Mexico as well as their return. Using fingerprints or retina scanning technologies we can make certain that those who do not follow the new rules would never be allowed into the US again while those who abide by the rules would provide the farmers the labor they need. In turn it would be the same farmers who hire this labor to cover all of the related costs for these employees.
Bob S (New Jersey)
Like it or not the Democratic party in order to win elections needs to support working Americans, and not illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants only mean cheap labor. Time for the Democratic party to understand that there has been more poverty for Americans and years of stagnant wages for Americans because of the cheap labor of illegal immigrants. Democrats will lose in 2018 if they continue to support illegal immigrants.
Jeff (California)
I disagree. We have the problem of illegals doing the work because Americans will not take those jobs. Do you think illegals would come to America if there were no jobs for them? Wages are not stagnant, they have been steadily rising for the last 9 years, 8 of them under a Democrat President.
Steve M (Doylestown, PA)
340 million people living within America's borders. Some large portion of them know or feel that the benefits (general peace and prosperity) of living here depend on a system of law developed over more than two hundred years. The Democratic party seems to think that its constituency is not that large portion of the populace. Rather it seems to think that its constituency is that smaller number of people who entered the country in violation of that system of laws. Please Democratic party, consider the majority who hold compliance with law to be essential to fair opportunity and justice.
Innovator (Maryland)
Contrary to myth, Spanish is not an inferior language, and having an accent does not make you of lower intelligence than someone born here that doesn't have one (note, if you immigrate after age 6 and do not have either prior English instruction or an ear for languages, which is quite rare, you will have an accent). Even among Americans, people who successfully complete college often have college-educated parents. They help their kids, they expose them to more academic and structured pursuits, they encourage them to attend college (many blue collar families really do not) and they may help financially, since they earn more money. So immigrants will need several generations to become "educated". And we need low-skilled workers with good educations, and we like entrepreneurs, who don't always need to be highly skilled. Better schools would help .. if they were actually located in areas that need better schools, like our poor urban areas and yes places with poor immigrant laborers that obviously are providing some service to our community and our corporations. Germany spent 20 years restricting Turkish workers from citizenship ... it was not a good situation. I think there is plenty of room (look at people per acre and all our empty cities (Cleveland, Detroit) and small towns in the heartland .. and we can reduce our per capita energy consumption rapidly if we actually try (public transportation, smaller cars, etc).
Lilo (Michigan)
What if you don't want to live in areas with the population density of Lagos. Mumbai or Shanghai? What if you like being able to speak and to be understood in your native language? Why should Americans in America be discriminated against in favor of bilingual speakers? What if you prefer that your local public hospitals and schools are not inundated with limited skill people who don't speak English? We do most definitely not need low skilled workers in the current marketplace. Productivity gains, union decline, previous immigration driven increases to the labor force, automation, and globalization have reduced the need for low skilled workers. This is why wages have been stagnant for most workers since the seventies. Sorry but I like the US as is. We don't need more people. We are already the third most populated country on the planet, thanks in large part to immigration. Enough is enough.
William Case (United States)
The vast majority of Americans are descended from immigrants who spoke some language other than English. German Americans and Irish Americans both outnumber Anglo Americans. My ancestors spoke Gaelic, Manx, French Italian and Yiddish. They had to learn English. So why did we treat Americans whose ancestors spoke Spanish differently than other Americans? Why do they get bilingual education programs and affirmative action preferences in college admissions? What is so debilitating about having ancestors who spoke Spanish?
Jennifer Hoult, J.D. (New York City)
This bill attacks American agriculture, which relies on arduous low-paying work by illegal migrant workers. Americans don't want this work and don't accept the low wages it pays. Expect massive increases in the cost of dairy products and fresh produce. Expect more family farms to fold, because they won't be able to afford to pay higher wages for this work. And more Americans will go hungry, and face increased medical problems, because they will be unable to afford adequate nutritious food.
Lilo (Michigan)
Labor is a very small portion of agriculture's cost. Automation can make up any slack in the agricultural workforce. Arguing that lettuce might cost a few cents more is not an argument for turning a blind eye to illegal immigration or the exploitation which accompanies it.
Etaoin Shrdlu (San Francisco)
And of course, you have the data to back this up... You don't, because it's nonsense. Most crops in the US - wheat, corn, soybeans - are harvested mechanically. Crops that require hand picking are fruits and veggies. Farmworker pay comprises less than 10% of the price you pay for produce at the supermarket. Raising farmworker pay by 25% would add something like 3% to the cost. There's a lot of info relating to this issue on this thing called "the Internet"
William Case (United States)
We are often told American farms could not survive without unauthorized immigrants. According to the Pew Research Center, unauthorized immigrants make up 26 percent of U.S. farm workers, but only 4 percent of unauthorized immigrants work on farms. So, we could deport 96 percent of the 11.1 million unauthorized immigrants currently residing in the United State without affecting farms. We could gradually replace the 4 percent who work on farms by expanding the H-2A Temporary Agricultural Worker visa program or reviving the Braceros program of the 1950s and 60s. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/11/03/occupations-of-unauthorized-immigr...
John Brews ..✅✅ (Reno NV)
Hey, holding a gun to DACA’s head to push Dems into acceptance of Republican excess is a step beyond blackmail - thuggery! Let the GOP be seen as threatening deportation of 800,000 young people studying, working, and serving in the military. Flood the media with bits interviewing these victims and interposed with Republican threats. Pin it on the GOP so it will stick to them far past a shutdown and well into the next two elections. Let the GOP be painted with their mantra in capital letters: “deport 800,000 kids if you don’t want the govt shut down”. Shut it down! Pin it on the GOP! Put that on Fox News!
William Case (United States)
There is nothing immoral about a compromise that benefits both parties. Giving DACA enrollees a pathway to citizenship while reducing future illegal immigration helps both Dreamers and Americans. Why would anyone object to reducing illegal immigration except to encourage illegal immigration?
John (Boston)
How ironic - a guy named "Raul" is a hardliner on immigration. I think this underscores the state of the current American mind: "I got mine, so I'm gonna prevent others from getting to my status by taking theirs". Or "I am better than those people, and can do their job better. Kick them out/prevent them from coming here so I can get their job and more money" No sense of community, or the idea of the ripple/future effects of such myopic thinking. Ah well, here's to the American future.
Lilo (Michigan)
And meanwhile Canada is telling Salvadorans not to come. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/10/canada-is-s... It's almost as if some people actually believe that borders mean something. Wow.
John (Boston)
I think you missed the point of my post - no one is advocating for open borders, or non-existent immigration laws. Doing so without an in-depth analysis of it's immediate and future repercussions - human, economic, domestic and international is simply misguided. If you have a link to such analysis that has been done by Raul or the GOP, or the DEMs for that matter, feel free to share it with me, otherwise this "hardline stance" just appears to be done for political reasons and nothing more.
Gerld hoefen (rochester ny)
Reality check the buck ends when person is elected to office the party no longer identifys or purpose in elected offical. All elected officals in office have oath to serve in good faith of people for people . Reform comes in excuting the laws allready in place on immigration . Do we encourage people to come to usa who want to contribute or do we encourage countrys to send there criminals here?
Bob S (New Jersey)
Democratic politicians simply ignore that illegal immigration simply means cheap labor and stagnant wages for American citizens. It will be no surprise that Democrats will not have any real gains from the 2018 election. Americans with years of stagnant wages see no reason to support a political party that supports illegal immigrants that mean cheap labor. Republicans win elections because they pretend they are against illegal immigration.
R (Texas)
Interesting, in the comment section the discussion is evolving into a debate on "birthright citizenship", established by the 14th Amendment in 1868. Make no mistake, that is eventually where the vitriolic argument will end. You, as an ordinary American citizen, might believe the worker visas are "guest worker" in nature. (As well as student visas for academic purposes.) But the recipients consider it a pathway to citizenship. Birthright citizenship of offspring is the avenue, including those that arrive illegally. Purportedly, the United States and Canada are the "only two" developed countries, as defined by the International Monetary Fund, that still have unrestricted birthright citizenship laws.
Queensgrl (NYC)
And that practice has to end.
William Case (United States)
Amending or reinterpreting the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents would align U.S. birthright citizenship policy with the birthright citizenship policy with most other advanced nations. Granting birthright citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil makes U.S. immigration law difficult to enforce. Open border advocates may deplore the term “anchor baby,” but they argue illegal immigrants should not be deported if they have children who are U.S. citizens by virtue of having been born on U.S. soil. According to the Pew Research center, about 300,000 babies are born to U.S. immigrant each year.
Bob S (New Jersey)
A Democratic party that supports illegal immigrants in the US that lower the wages of Americans will never defeat Trump or Republicans.
Jamie (Rudert)
I am a bleeding heart liberal and I consider the "Hard-Line Immigration Stand" as reasonable and worth considering. Democrats should not appear to care more about immigrants than native born citizens. Let's shut down the diversity visa lottery and limit chain immigration to just spouses and children. That's reasonable. Stricter penalties on hiring illegals - what is wrong with that? 3 year renewable permits for DACAs - not perfect but let's negotiate. Building the wall - let's take a hard stand on that. It is a waste of money and Trump promised the Mexicans would pay for it.
Saxton Pretzi (TN)
Perhaps this approach to chain migration is meant to distance the citizen from his in-laws? But in all seriousness, families need to be able to stick together. Build in a guardrail around maximum number of people in the chain per X number of years.
Jeff (California)
Jamie: Do you think that employers would hire illegals if there were Americans who would take the jobs?
MM (NY)
Jamie is right on. Best comment I read in a long time. Democrats do seem to care more about legal/illegal immigrants over American born citizens. Blame Russians all you want, but Democrats lost the presidential election because they just dont seem to care about middle class Americans. Democrats will bankrupt this country paying for immigrants' medical care by borrowing from the Chinese and destroy the middle class at the same time. It is all about votes kids as new immigrants tend to vote Democrat.
JTH (Colorado)
Isn’t this fabulous? Raul, who has a BA in Spanish, with an emphasis on Latin American literature, standing at the podium railing against immigration. Hypocrite much?
tbandc (mn)
Because he knows there's a DIFFERENCE between legal and illegal immigration - a subject many here seem to have a problem understanding!
Really (Boston, MA)
Was Cezar Chavez also a hypocrite for opposing the use of illegal immigrants in agricultural labor?
Etaoin Shrdlu (San Francisco)
He has a Hispanic name, speaks Spanish and has a deep understanding of Latin American culture, therefore he should automatically be in favor of illegal immigration? Stereotype much?
Bob S (New Jersey)
Trump and Republicans win simply because Democratic politicians are stupid. How else explain Democrat politicians fighting for illegal immigrants that will only mean more stagnant wages and poverty for Americans. The law of supply and demand means wages are lower when you have a large amount of labor that will accept low wages. Perhaps someday Democrat politicians will understand the law of supply and demand, and also will understand that illegal immigrants do not vote in the US.
617to416 (Ontario via Massachusetts)
It would be nice if Americans actually thought about why there is immigration to the country (hint: there's a demand for their labor that isn't filled by current residents) and what role immigrants really play in the economy (hint: they provide lots of needed high-end and low-end labor that current residents don't provide), then develop an immigration policy that makes real economic sense. I get the feeling that all immigration policy proposals are based on nothing but emotions for or against immigrants. More than anything, these proposals reflect the utter stupidity with which American law-making and regulation-making is now conducted. The United States is turning into a country run by incompetents whose only interest is getting applause from whatever completely uninformed constituency supports them. Sadly, I don't have much hope for things improving.
William Case (United States)
We don't need illegal immigrants to fill jobs. We can import all the legal immigrant we want. Millions are standing in line. Employers hire illegal immigrants because their unlawful status forces them to work for lower wages.
Wendy K. (Mdl Georgia)
Well stated. America...fast becoming the land of Stupid. If we'd change immigration laws as you stated & begin to work cooperatively with our southern nations to help find solutions to the desperation of their people (you know, human beings) it would do far more to reduce illegal immigration. Course that requires time, study & real effort...something the US has given up on in return for instant gratification and the ease of scapegoating.
617to416 (Ontario via Massachusetts)
I think Mexican farm labor (as an example) is an absolute need in America. Unfortunately, we don't provide an easy legal way for those labourers to work in America, which means the illegal channel is all that is open to them and their employers. If we were smart, we'd create a simpler legal channel (even if it's only through temporary work permits) and then enforce labor laws that require them to be treated fairly once they are here.
Bob S (New Jersey)
Americans need to get use to Trump and Republicans since Democratic politicians do not understand that the Americans that voted for Trump did not want more illegal immigrants that created more Americans in poverty and Americans that had years of stagnant wages. In the 1900's more legal immigrants were brought into the US to lower wages. Now we have a Democratic party that does not understand that illegal immigrants means lower wages.
L Kuster (New York)
Creating immigration laws requires finesse, compassion, sensibility, fairness. Instead we have a witches’ brew to drink first: a mercurial president (who once again is railing against the “unfair” courts); Raul Labrador, once a believer in paths to citizenship for immigrants, now speaking a hard line, along with other Republicans; and Democrats who frankly, seem torn about their stance. In the meantime, Trump is shredding protections for immigrants, and demanding a wall be built. Without a sense of the future, the lives of so many people are in turmoil. The hard task ahead is formulating balanced laws that do not bludgeon people. We never seem to have the patience to do this.
Nina (Chicago)
I have friends who have been stuck in the legal immigration line for 15 years, waiting for a green card whose tentative approval date seems to forever recede in the future. They are highly educated. He had a work visa; she wasn't allowed to work for twelve years and watched her skills erode and instead filled her time with volunteering for anything and everything at our local school. They have children who were born here. They hesitated long and hard before buying a modest home since they were always dependent on one income. They don't complain, keep their heads down, work hard and pay their taxes. Nobody seems to care about their situation. Instead, Democrats seem to treat illegal immigration as some kind of badge of honor immune to criticism and worthy of every privilege. This ridiculous double standard has to end.
Queensgrl (NYC)
And that is why the Democrats will lose count on it. I feel for your friends plight and wish them the best. Apparently the Dems like the chaos that has been created.
Margo (Atlanta)
The temporary work visas like the H1b were not designed as a path to a green card. They knew this before they arrived, no surprise.
Alex (Raleigh)
At least they came here legally. Here is the problem - they’ve been playing this game with full respect of laws and following all rules for many-many years - and no one cares about them. But everybody cares about people who totally disrespected laws and dares to demand special treatments! What is the message to law-abiding immigrants - “Don’t be a fool, become illegal and we will cut the line for you!”
camorrista (Brooklyn, NY)
In case anybody doubted that a huge number of Americans hate immigrants, just skim through this thread. These people are your neighbors, your colleagues, your friends & your relatives. These people are the "real" Americans. One day, soon, these "real" Americans will discover that their hatred is contagious, and they will become the hunted.
CNNNNC (CT)
Is that a threat? Do you think that helps the discussion? Can’t you talk about it even acknowledge the very real challenges in people’s everyday lives from the willful negligence of our government failing to enforce these laws? That will effect these ‘real’ Americans too when the next wave comes. Not changing any hearts and minds using words like ‘hunted’
Bob S (New Jersey)
Republican politicians will pretend to fight for stopping illegal aliens while they know that Republican business owners want illegal aliens that will mean cheaper wages. Meanwhile Democratic politicians will fight for illegal aliens that have meant years of stagnant wages for Americans. Republicans will win in 2018 since Democratic politicians do not understand that illegal aliens do not vote and Americans with stagnant wages see no point in voting for Democrats.
Bob S (New Jersey)
"Give us your poor" on the Statue of Liberty should have been really "Give us your cheap labor". Every time wages rose in the US companies would bring in immigrants that would lower wages. Like it or this is still true with Republicans companies now using illegal immigrants. Meanwhile the answer of this of the Democratic party is to support illegal immigrants and ignore that there is more Americans in poverty because of years of stagnant wages because of cheap illegal immigrants. The Democrats will lose in 2018 with Americans that do not have a live able wage not voting for Democrats. Time for the Democratic party to understand that illegal immigrants only means poor wages for many Americans that can vote.
Steve (Portland, Maine)
Absent in this immigration reform debate has been the holding accountable of businesses that hire and sometimes exploit undocumented workers. Requiring and reporting verifiable identification to work, or lose one's business license, seems like an easier, commonsense fix, rather than paying billions of dollars for a wall and countless border agents and spying technology.
Ignatius J. Reilly (N.C.)
And I bet/know Republicans have a big hand in some of these businesses (Meat Processing/Farms) or get a big hand out from them. And they're cracking down on small franchise 7/11's? when no doubt these huge agro businesses/etc. employ hundreds and thousands of illegal people.
vulcanalex (Tennessee)
That is already something that has been done, Obama was famous for raiding places but not deporting them. Like a balloon they just change jobs.
paul (White Plains, NY)
Lawbreaking and illegal immigration must not be rewarded. The U.S. is on its way to third world country status, and the pace is increasing exponentially. America cannot be and should not be the depository for the people that their own countries want to get rid of. Yet the Democrat party and its leaders keep telling these same countries that we will welcome these people, with all of the costs to American taxpayers that this open door policy entails. Enough is enough. Build the wall. Deport illegal aliens. End chain migration.
BM (NY)
paul, We've already achieved Third World status. Look around. There are pockets of America that have been Third World for decades now. Go visit a Native American reservation for instance. Or northern Maine, The Waianae coast of Oahu. The Bronx.
APO (JC NJ)
exponentially? - typical republican hysterics
AJ (New York)
How did your parents/ancestors come to this country. Were they here at the beginning of time. History says that the American Indians were here first. Then, Columbus arrived. Many of these countries were destabilized by foreign policies that supported dictators. How do you justify who comes and who goes? What if the American Indians had the right to say we must all go
PS (Massachusetts)
I agree that we need to be tougher on crime via illegal immigrant, and that family-based immigration is abused and needs revisiting. But overall, groups who deal/sell big data as a means of making decisions/law about jobs, health, citizenship, etc. are far more dangerous than a 16 year old kid in a public school who wants to live in the country he/she was raised. This demand of the Republicans puts them in bed with NSA et al, in broad daylight. It is far worse for all of us to accept the mentality of wanna-be cops who want everything in a database so that they can track, judge, watch, compare or whatever it is they really want to do with the data they collect. E-verify? Riiiight. "Citizenship" now but what's next? Another nail in the coffin for privacy rights for all. All of it brought to you by two parties who refuse to work together to strengthen America.
Bob S (New Jersey)
When do Democratic politicians understand that you win elections by offering voters something that they want. Americans with low wages do not want more illegal aliens that will only make it more difficult to have a living wage job. When do Democratic politicians going to learn to fight for better wages for Americans, and not get involved in supporting illegal aliens that will simply lower wages for Americans. Democratic politicians need to wake up and understand that illegal aliens do not vote.
JTH (Colorado)
Republicans supporting a “living wage”? When pigs fly!
APO (JC NJ)
all that competition to work in the fields picking produce - now white people can get off welfare and work for a living.
Thomaspaine17 (new york)
It’s an ironic twist of fate that in this very edition of the New York Times there is an article about Angela Merkel and her time as leader of Germany coming to an end and what is the biggest mistake that Merkel made ? one issue that tarnished her outstanding legacy? immigration. Merkel decision to allow over a million foreign immigrants into Germany , many Muslim who are having a hard time assimilating into a culture that’s says Women are equal, homosexuality is legal and Jews to be treated as friends in the fellowship of citizenship. Ask the Swedes how their own adventure in immigration is going. Please Democrats learn from the mistakes of Angela Merkel...or share her fate. Good intentions are fine but when those intentions go contrary to the views of most of your electorate...then your fate is sealed. Ignore the will of the voters at your own risk.
APO (JC NJ)
what does that have to do with the US? NOTHING
Rishi (New York)
Immigration problem needs to be looked from multidimensions; 1Family chain Issues;job based needs in the country be only allowed-- 2.Unnecessary Lottery System,cancel 3.Foreign Students who work illegally-deported 4.undocumented residents-deported and should apply from their countries 5.Terrorism supporting countries-no Immigration There are so many other issues which can help America in the future. A committee of concerned citizens should be appointed to draft a list to be given to President for consideration and his action.
Margo (Atlanta)
The OPT program which was greatly expanded by Obama gave foreign students a huge advantage over American students in terms of wage and tax payments. That program should only be used for exceptional circumstances - if it is allowed to remain at all.
diggory venn (hornbrook CA)
It is maddening to me that the Times keeps insisting some sort of consensus for a "bipartisan deal" emerged from Tuesday's meeting. Trump, for his part, agreed with everything anybody said, up until somebody said something else, and then he agreed with that. The four elements,such as they are, were what the Republicans claimed were the consensus, but I have not seen anything to indicate that there was an agreement among the Democrats about those elements.
TFR (Freeport, ME)
Negotiating and dealing with Trump must be like attempting to nail jello to a wall.
Bob S (New Jersey)
Democratic politicians will lose in 2018. Illegal aliens do not vote, and Americans that have had stagnant wages for years will see no point in voting for Democratic politicians that have ignored the rise of poverty of Americans citizens.
APO (JC NJ)
maybe white people need to work harder.
cec (odenton)
The Trump, the R's and their rabid anti-immigrant supporters rely on misleading information, falsehoods, and lies in their efforts to combat immigration. According to the US Census Bureau, the birthrate is at an 80 year low. By 2050, 20% of the population will be 65 years old. The aging population depends upon younger workers which will affect investing, and spending as well as straining pensions and entitlements. Without immigration the US will not be able to sustain retirees. But hey, why have a discussion on the merits of the case when ideology and misinformation is easier.
J. (Ohio)
I am surprised that Rep. Labrador's bill doesn't contain a provision to ship the Statue of Liberty, along with its famous lines from Emma Lazarus, back to France. He and the Republican Party seem to detest the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to be free.
barb tennant (seattle)
Plenty of Americans who are poor. Help them before illegal criminals
David Gage ( Grand Haven, MI)
I am amazed that there is not one elected official who wants to properly deal will the illegal immigration issue. Taking the following approach would not only work it would cost all of us a lot less: First, change the 14th amendment that states all persons born in the US shall become citizens when it should be those born of US citizens shall become US citizens. Next, the illegal immigrants shall not receive any government covered health care or welfare. Next, the illegal immigrants shall not be allowed to use the public schools. Next, the illegal immigrants will not be able to get driver's licenses. Next, the illegal immigrants will not be allowed to join the military. Those who have been here for more than 5 years, have children over 10 years of age and have proven they can retain a job would be allowed to stay once they are properly registered. Finally, the costs related to transporting the illegal immigrants will fall into the hands of their nation of origin where these costs will be included in their embassy costs in the USA. This approach would result in the very fast reduction of those who are recently in the US illegally and would certainly sever the desires of others down the road. There would be no future need of a wall. Oh, this would not stop the illegal drug trafficking as the only solution to that mess it to eliminate the demand side of the curve in the USA.
BM (NY)
I agree with everything you're suggesting here with the exception of allowing those who have been here for 5 year to be allowed to stay.
Bob S (New Jersey)
Time for Democratic politicians to stop not voting for a government funding measure and attempting to have a resolution on immigration. Democratic politicians need to work to increase government funding for Americans that are poor, and forget trying to join a resolution on immigration to the vote for government funding. Democratic politicians will lose in 2018 with a policy of aiding illegal aliens in the US and simply ignoring for Americans. Poverty of Americans in the US has increased and the public schools of poor Americans need more aid since more poor American children cannot read. It is absurd that Democratic politicians are fighting for illegal aliens and not the increase of poverty of Americans. Democratic politicians need to wake up and understand that wages for Americans have been stagnant for years. The US is no longer the land of plenty for Americans but instead is the land of cheap labor.
APO (JC NJ)
I can't wait for the shut down of the corrupt republican federal government - 6 months to a year at least.
Angry (The Barricades)
Who busted the Unions? Conservatives. Who fought against a living wage? Conservatives. Who rails against regulations meant to protect workers (and the public and the environment)? Conservatives. Who is committed to destroying the safety nets? Conservatives. I'm upset that the Democrats have grown too corporatist of late, but it's a laugh to suggest that the GOP is looking out for the American worker.
Ma (Atl)
Forget the GOP and DNC. The people do NOT want open borders, do NOT want to see a continued flood of illegal immigrants whether they overstay their VISAs or walk across a border. We also do not need the 'diversity visa' or the current laws that make your child a citizen because you give birth over the border. Also, we need to eliminate the law that allows naturalized citizens to bring their families and extended families to the US. Sorry, but our population is already bursting at the seams in many areas and causing environmental destruction as we develop lands ill suited for human populations (e.g. CA). And don't give me any sappy 'we are a country of immigrants.' One can say that for every inch of the globe.
mrfreeze6 (Seattle, WA)
Enforcing our immigration laws is fine as long as those who employ illegals are penalized severely. No one should consider any immigration reform legitimate without revamping the laws to discourage hiring undocumented people. Conservatives love to complain about "our open borders" but they are incredibly silent over the supply and demand equation. People come to the U.S. because they can find work here and there are, obviously, a lot of employers willing to ignore the law. And don't give me the "no one forces" illegals to come to America. It wasn't so long ago that Republicans bragged that everyone wants to come to America because it's such a great place.
@PISonny (Manhattan, NYC)
Some items in the proposal like E-Verify are not new. if only all employers who depend on illegal labor can be compelled to use them, then the illegals will have no prayer. Trump's overtures during the "staged" show to depress angst-ridden liberals about "bill of love" was just a floater to test the waters and to gauge the reaction among his base. People like Mark Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, and Ingraham were nearly up in arms about any show of "love" to illegals in our midst, and unless Trump is really mentally ill, he had no option but to get the message. Let us take control of our borders and of our country. That is not a bad thing. We are a nation of laws, and ought to remain that way lest we become a roach motel.
OrinHD (Denver, CO)
It doesn't matter if this ever comes to a vote in Congress. THIS is who the Republicans have shamelessly revealed themselves to be.
barb tennant (seattle)
Law abiding Americans?
Dudesworth (Kansas)
While I heartily agree that there needs to be a significant overhaul in our immigration policy, pulling the rug out from under so many people that are already here is unkind, logistically Fascist, and plainly cynical. People aren’t pawns although the GOP would have us all think otherwise. The political opportunism on display - pandering to a base that rarely even comes into contact with Hispanics or Muslims- is revolting. It’s time we accept these immigrants as important fixtures of our society, change our immigration policy going forward (start with H1B visas), forget the stupid wall and move on.
BM (NY)
Dudesworth, Do you think if you illegally overstayed in any other country in the world that they would not deport you? There are no time limits on this.
Dudesworth (Kansas)
I’m just being realistic. No one wants to hold the employers of illegals accountable so the gov. takes the easy route and goes after the little guy. But to answer your question I’ll prob be finding out when I move to Canada after another couple of years if Drumpf.
PaulM (Ridgecrest Ca)
Democrats should propose a bill and get Republican cosponsors that enables the building of a wall only when funding for the wall is provided by Mexico and is in the bank. This was Trump's campaign promise. Why are we the taxpayers being required to pay for this boondoggle and why is the wall central to any discussion of immigration or government funding if it is not paid for by Mexico? A large % of americans do not support it and they especially don't want to pay for it.
Jeff (California)
Lets fund the wall with fines on all the US businesses who hire illegals. If the busyness refused to hire illegals, they illegals would stay home. But OTOH, Since Americans refuse to do the jobs the illegals take where are we going to get the workers?
Keith (NC)
Seems pretty reasonable to me, but I'm not surprised at all the NY Times considers enforcing the law and commonsense reforms that most other first world nations implemented decades ago to be "hard line".
Jim Muncy (Crazy, Florida)
What's so bloody wrong with chain immigration? Europeans of all stripes did it, and it worked fine; it's like a halfway house towards full immersion into the culture of the social and political experiment known as America. So, of course, one is going to go to Little Italy or Chinatown when emigrating to our fruited plains. Birds of a feather flock together for many sound reasons, eh?
William Case (United States)
Many of those who post comments to New York Times articles about efforts to staunch illegal immigration characterize the efforts as racist. However, most illegal immigrants—and most DACA enrollees--are white. Most are Hispanic. Hispanics can be of any race, but most of those who immigrate—legally or illegally—to the United States are white. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the United States was 77.4 percent white in 2014, up three percentage points from 74.4 percent in 2012, due primarily to Hispanic immigration from Latin America. The Census Bureau projects the United States will continue to grow whiter as long as current migration trends continues. However, intermarriage between non-Hispanic whites and Hispanic whites is so common that any distinction between the two ethnic groups probably will disappear around mid-century. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00
Steve Bolger (New York City)
South America is already the most racially mixed continent on Earth, to the extent one can say that people who are able to procreate successfully are really of different races.
William Case (United States)
According to the Census Bureau, 2.6 percent of Americans consider themselves mixed race. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045217
Luciano (Jones)
"Some Republicans are searching for compromise against a conservative tide of anti-immigrant fervor." I think that's a mis-print. It should say 'anti illegal-immigrant fervor', no? It's the difference between lightening and lightening bug
Steve Bolger (New York City)
Get real. The Trump way is to auction US citizenship to the highest bidders. $250,000 buys a gestation visa for a stay at a Trump property to give birth on American soil.
John Lusk (Danbury,Connecticut)
Some journalist could make a name for themselves by travelling to and photographing the day laborers working at the homes of members of Congress. Let's show everyone what hypocrites they are.
James (Houston)
It is about time the immigration mess is addressed. Our graduate schools are full of smart foreign students who need to be able to obtain green cards. Instead, we have been turning a blind eye to the massive influx of uneducated illegals who do not assimilate to US culture, they try to create their culture here. results are corruption, poor school performance and more welfare payments. I fully support our President in his demands to secure the border.
Steve Bolger (New York City)
The "lottery" Trump wants to abolish winnows down the numbers of fully vetted, qualified, and sponsored applicants to the quotas assigned to their nations of origin by Congress.
barb tennant (seattle)
It’s random,
Lauren Warwick (Pennsylvania)
Every proposal touted by the extremist "Freedom Council" part of the GOP sounds an awful lot like their name really should be the "Fascist Council." Got to keep the untermenchen in line, right?
T Main (Sam Francisco)
A giant, stupid wall or an infrastructure overhaul? Can we spend our money smarter, please?!
BM (NY)
Birthright citizenship must completely end. This is not helping our nation whatsoever. It is a drain on our taxpayers. No mas.
Eric (New York)
Republican voters complain that Congress never gets anything done, and then they vote in hard-line Tea Party "Freedom Caucus" candidates for whom the word "compromise" doesn't exist. These are the politicians who have taken a faltering institution (the House of Representatives) and made it dysfunctional. Of course, Trump's an idiot, can't remember what he said 2 seconds ago, and just makes matters worse with his dithering. Meanwhile, the lives of hundreds of thousands of hard-working young people lie in the balance. The fall of America continues has accelerated, as expected, since Trump became president and Republicans took over the government. The only saving grace is their incompetence. We need to sweep them out of office in 2018.
KF (North Carolina)
My suggestion to these House GOPers? Look at Trumpf's in-laws - chain migration in the flesh. Look at Trumpf's Florida properties - temporary homes for Russian pregnant women flocking here to have American-born babies. Is that OK because these people are white? Look at your own families and try to have just a little compassion - what is wrong with you all? America is a land of immigrants. We are stronger because we are NOT all alike. Your plan would make us turn away people who will die because they cannot come to America. Refugees are not terrorists. We need more immigration not less. We need more people coming to the US to become citizens, not less.
Dave (Brown)
"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddle masses yearning to breathe free.." I guess we don't believe in that anymore.
BM (NY)
It is 2018 not 1918. We already have enough huddled masses. Many of them are homeless, 100's of thousands, including families with children, in shelters, in tents and sleeping under bridges.
Angry (The Barricades)
And the same people interested in keeping the brown folks out are the same people who do nothing to address poverty, instead advocating for bootstraps while slicing up the safety net
HL (AZ)
There is an assumption that the illegal immigrants are driving wages down. It's just possible that with near full employment that these workers are actually productive. This may well drive more businesses to leave the US and leave us with a huge shortage of both skilled and unskilled labor. All those people addicted to opioid's aren't going to suddenly get off their backsides when wages for picking fruits, caring for the sick and elderly and building and repairing homes in the Southwest are suddenly needed by former welders in Michigan.
Steve Bolger (New York City)
It is rank idiocy to believe that the US can hold back the migrations of hundreds of millions of people who are literally losing their habitats day by day. The choirboy congress idolates for divine intervention. "Elect us and God will expand the Earth!" What specious nonsense.
T. Rivers (Montana)
Politicians and journalists should only interact with Trump via Twitter. But him up in trump tower, build an en suite McDonalds, and send him DMs. At least that way we’ll get consistently inconsistent and incoherent answers but without all the grandstanding. It would also let us skip the lying charades of people like The Sarah.
tbs (detroit)
All those people that thought trump caused the racist animus should now see that the racism is republican. The dire predictions for the midterm elections are causing the republicans to whip up their base racists, just as trump does when he feels the heat. The final nail in the coffin conclusively demonstrating that the republicans hate all of the "others".
Restore Human Sanity (Manhattan)
This proposal is a reaction against the president pretending to want to work with the democrats at that bogus white house meeting. These house members are afraid they might have to compromise. These are small minded men. Exclusionary men who need to strike quickly, attempting to manipulate the president in their direction. Lets vote them all out and replace them with rational, non-biased human beings.
Richard Monckton (San Francisco, CA)
Immigration, legal or not, has two ways of affecting society. One is its economic impact, the other is the shaping of the national identity and culture. Illegal immigrants, especially from Latin America, are overwhelmingly low-skilled workers, and studies show that, surprisingly and contrary to popular belief, they have a positive impact on the salaries of uneducated American workers (Ottaviano and Peri, “Rethinking the Effects of Immigration on Wages: New Data and Analysis from 1990- 2004”.) The long-term cultural impact of low-skill immigrants, on the other hand, is much more far reaching. Their influence on national identity plays out both through their family dynamics, in that low-education immigrants tend to produce low-skilled descendents, and through the racial resentments they provoke among working-class Americans. Counterintuitive as it may sound, illegal immigrants from Latin America, by their very presence, unwittingly, and quite apart from their economic impact, are contributing to the derailment of American Democracy. In the absence of immigrants from Latin America, racial resentment among uneducated whites would be lower and Donald Trump's base of support would be weaker. Unintended consequences can be unexpected indeed.
Casey Penk (NYC)
Attention spiteful House Republicans: The people are listening and watching your retrograde moves, and your jobs are on the line.
Phil Levitt (West Palm Beach)
Let's assume Trump is sane. His rapid changes of what he wants from one thing to something 180 degrees opposite, sometimes within minutes, make him more difficult to work with than any chief executive I have ever heard of in or out of government. No one who vacillates this much can be competent.If they weren't so cruel, I would feel sorry for our Republican legislators.
TheOldPatroon (Pittsfield, MA)
Have you ever heard the old saying; "the 600 pound gorilla in the room"? It refers to the unasked question when an important issue is being discussed but nobody wants to admit the gorilla is sitting there. I will now address the 600 pound gorilla. With all the Republican hard line tough talk about immigration, with all the border roundups, with all the ICE sweeps through schools, hospitals and now 7-11 stores has any of the Trump properties been targeted? The answer is a resounding NO.
RLW (Chicago)
I got mine. If we let any more in they will take some of mine away from me.
Okiegopher (OK)
This so-called "stable genius" president took three or four...maybe five different positions in his bi-partisan "dog and pony show" this week. He agreed with whoever was speaking at the moment ...and then switched when the next person spoke up. He has no core principles...just "get something done." That is not leadership and that is certainly not stable and we already knew he is not a "genius"!
Gaucho54 (California)
Yesterday, ICE agents descended on dozens of 7-Eleven stores. I now wonder if they will descend on Mar-a-Lago and other Trump country clubs. Either way, this is a show for the base to demonstrate that they are getting tough, fortunately most of us understand that this has nothing to do with immigration or illegal immigrants. The Trump administration has excelled in cruelty.
Joe P. (Maryland)
It's almost like they want to be completely defeated come November.
cwt (canada)
As with most issues Republicans can not agree among themselves.The one glaring exception is tax reductions for Corporations and the 1 % to ensure future funding of the Republican party.What a scam ,they deserve to be kicked out of office.Wake up voters. The Democrats on the other hand have weak leadrship and lack a position on may issues other than being contrary to Republicans. Someone formidable should run as an independent
Bonku (Madison, WI)
Congress should also make it a law to verify educational degrees of potential immigrants who want o avail or availed specific visa based on his/her education- e.g during green card processing through EB1 or EB2 category. This verification can be done by a third party, accredited American organizations (there are many to chose from). It's alleged that a huge number of H1B temporary work visas are granted to many IT and other employees, imported from countries like India, China etc., who forged their educational degrees and purchased 'experience certificates' to get jobs and visa in USA. Those people must not get green card and citizenship.
Kelly (Maryland)
This speech is for the base. And for the house to pass a sweeping, hard-line bill that will then be revised in the Senate to meet the needs of the high net worth donors. While the immigration debate focuses on the little guy - the "bad hombre" passing over our boarder in the dead of night - the real conversations and deal making on immigration is about big business (agriculture, manufacturing, meat processing, hospitality). Those industries rely on immigrants to make their profits. And so once the donors have had their say, gotten their share of low wage workers, immigration bill will pass. And that will, in an odd twist, be in favor of the dems.
Ch (Peoria)
I surprise myself when I think that I actually agree with this plan (or a version of it), even though I’m against pretty much everything DT and R’s have proposed. This is not hardline immigration reform (the Muslim ban was a hardline immigration reform). Ending chain immigration is important to make sure people don’t abuse the PR system and clear the backlogs that have long plagued the legal immigration pipeline. It also offers DACA recipients relief so it’s the same as what Obama proposed.
Chris (Michigan)
There is nothing surprising about the Freedom Caucus putting forward an extreme proposal. That is what they are about and that is what their donors expect out of them Truth be told, though, that in any bipartisan deal the Freedom Caucus will have little say in the outcome. The power of the caucus derives from its power to block legislation that the Republican party is trying to pass by itself. In any potential bipartisan deal, their 35 some votes don't add up to very much in the full House (8%). Playing spoiler, the Freedom Caucuses favorite game, is far less effective with the full deck of congressmen than just half the deck.
pat (oregon)
The GOP recognizes that demographics are working against the size of the party. Keeping brown people out and/or sending them away is part of the strategy to minimize the problem. It goes hand in hand with racial gerrymandering, also known as, herding minorities onto voting reservations.
Lou S. (Clifton, NJ)
Trying to follow all of the twists-and-turns in this evolving story on immigration is literally making my head spin. Trying to imagine--even for a moment--that I was also a DACA recipient, is a truly frightening/horrifying thought. I used to be so proud of this country, even knowing that we always made our share of mistakes here and there. But many/some (?) of those mistakes often related to us fighting for the human rights of innocent civilians in other countries. How can we now be fighting against the human rights of innocent civilians living, working, and paying taxes in our own country? I am so lost....and so saddened, by this moment we have reached as a country.
Vernon (Brisol City)
A potential for dissension in the GOP ranks, perchance, eh? Oh, yes. When Trump was fumbling with flimflam and flapdoodle, during his recent cabinet meeting on DACA and CIR (comprehensive immigration reform) talks, Kevin McCarthy of CA, stormed into the discussion arena, soon after Diane Feinstein wanted clarification on the DACA and border security issues. Next thing one knew, Trump was all over the place as regards his ephemeral and ever-changing stance on every issue, including, but not limited to, immigration, among other things. The TV anchors pounced on his fickle fettle, and took him to task. Unfazed, Trump touted his temper-tantrum ridden tirades about his ''tremendous achievements'' hitherto, in stock market numbers, and the GDP growths. This guy's IQ needs a head-to-toe assessment every so often as to ascertain his mental faculties. OK, it ain't gonna happen, one has to admit, rather painfully. His ardent and fervent supporters will become irascible at this suggestion, anyways. Whenever Trump-supporting news analysts in CNN or MSNBC start spewing out venom and regurgitating alternative facts, some of the viewers squirm and scream inside their minds. Immigration polemics on DACA and TPS will continue to be rampant in the air, and the skirmishes among a few GOP members will, then, be a treat to watch for many a neutral observer. This will, forsooth, keep the temporary migrants on the tenterhooks for now.
rixax (Toronto)
Senator Feinstein asked to have a decision on DACA without using the issue to shoehorn in other issues (the wall, E-Verify, etc). President Trump was amenable. The Republican reaction was quick warning the President that the other issues must be included or they will have to wait for the next possible government shutdown to leverage these demands. Do the right thing on DACA Do not hold these thousands hostage to other, un-releated issues. This is not a show of Republican strength. It is cold and inhumane.
Ben (Westchester )
Trump campaigned as a populist. He is governing *nowhere near* populism. An obvious example: "We will build a wall, and Mexico will pay for the wall." Today -- "Actually, you will be paying for the wall. Can I have the first $18 Billion in money, please?" But the HOUSE R's have to be populist. Because they must run every two years.
Steve Bolger (New York City)
The House Republicans are a pack of phonies who just shrug and say don't blame them because God is responsible for everything.
Zen Dad (Los Angeles, California)
If Democrats have any hope for November and beyond, they need stronger leadership in the House. Rep. Pelosi and associates are too complacent, too unorganized.
sep (pa)
Why are we discussing this if it's not likely to go to the house? Is this a diversion from the focus on Mueller's investigation? Is it a means to shift Trump loyalists from Trump to the republican party in the event Trump goes down?
Joe O'Malley (Buffalo, NY)
What is so hard-line with these proposals? Why should anyone have a problem with using e-Verify? It benefits everybody, including preventing illegals from being exploited.
Mark (Green)
DACA and e-verify are two different things. DACA and the dreamers are the story here. E-verify most people would support.
frank w (high in the mountains)
So what is being said is........ People who live in parts of the country with a dismal economy will suddenly stop using pills heroin and other drugs that make them into zombies. They will pack up the car and move to parts of the country where the economy is in desperate need of people to fill jobs that require nothing more than showing up and working all day. let me know when that migration starts happening
Luciano (Jones)
I guarantee that Trump and a majority of Congressional Republicans have no intention of deporting a single DACA kid. That's a bargaining chip and it's a great negotiating tool. They'll give on something they don't really care about (DACA) in exchange or something they do really care about (funding the wall, more money for iCE?)
NM (NY)
During this week's televised spectacle of meeting with members of Congress, Trump washed his hands of responsibility for an immigration solution by saying that it was up to the other people in that room. You could see Trump being reeled towards a hardline attitude by Kevin McCarthy. Trump won't be a leader here, and Republicans are simply going to perpetuate a stalemate.
Mike L (NY)
The House of Representatives is in its own world. Sometimes they seem to forget or just don’t care that there are other branches of the legislature like the Senate. They put out House votes that they know will go absolutely nowhere but it’s only so they can go back to their constituents and say they voted in favor of this or that. It’s such a huge waste of valuable time and effort. Our government is reaching a point where it simply does not work. The inability of our political parties to work together for the common good of this country will be our downfall. Depend upon it.
Steve Bolger (New York City)
Congresscritter horizons are no wider than their districts. There is no public office with a national constituency in the US. The president is elected by the fractious states, not all of the people voting equally.
William Case (United States)
House Republicans know the Senate can't rescue the DACA enrollees unless it agrees to a compromise legislative package. They know Senate Republicans can override the Senate unconstitutional "60-vote rule" anytime they want. It's the 60-rule that creates the legislative logjam.
Jim (WI)
We don’t need more people in this country. We have too many people here already. Being pro immigration and pro environment is impossible. We should be looking for ways of lowering our population not growing it. And why do we have to take in people when something bad happens in their country? It’s like rewarding countries that can’t govern themselves. Stop all immigration now. There is no long term good.
Joe (Texas)
You're living in the long term good of immigration. We're a nation of immigrants who were desperate for the opportunity to work hard toward a better life. If we end immigration, we'll become a nation of entitled complacency.
Mark (Green)
Where did your family come from when they immigrated to the US? Oh wait, that was fine.
Old Mainer (Portland Maine)
Potato famine.
Bklynnupe (Brooklyn)
The bigger issue is how often Dems will fall for the ole banana in the tailpipe routine. Dems get owned every time and confuse compromise with compromised.
Gerry K. (Brigantine, NJ)
Senator Dianne Feinstein says (on 1-9-18) give us DACA and only DACA -- and you get nothing in return now. And the media says it's the GOP House which is being unreasonable!
Barbara B (Detroit, MI)
You speak of the DACA issue as if it were some kind of collateral in a bank rather than what it is: a group of young people fully socialized as Americans.
Gerry K. (Brigantine, NJ)
"You speak of the DACA issue as if it were some kind of collateral in a bank...." -- BB Projection? I never viewed it that way. With all due respect, please don't attribute your thoughts or words to me. The DACA issue is one *of many* important issues involved in current political negotiations. Each side considers its issues to be important if not vital to America's welfare, security, etc. But that doesn't require us to denigrate or dismiss our opponents' positions. How fair would it be to claim that Democrats don't care if there are thousands more Kate Steinles or that Democrats consider border security as "some kind of collateral in a bank rather than what it is," an effort to protect us, to enforce our existing immigration laws, to prevent the smuggling of dangerous goods, etc.? Favoring border security doesn't constitute hostility to "a group of young people."
Christy (Blaine, WA)
Time for the Dems to show some spine and the Republicans to show some heart or shut down the government and see who gets the blame.
Fr. Bill (Cambridge, Massachusetts)
Going down memory lane of the Republican election playbook I remember over the years: the McCarthy Red Scare, "Welfare Queens" - mostly black single mothers, Willie Horton - dangerous thugs who are mostly black men, the gay menace, and gays destroying marriage. Now it is foreign immigrants. It seems every election cycle the Republicans come out with a new dog whistle to incite fear and prejudice. They always seem to know where the low road is at any given time and never tire of taking it. Fox, right wing talk radio and now the internet act as amplifiers. Let us not overreact but calmly deal with reality and the best interests of our nation. The media can help by abandoning false equivalence.
Jack (Boston)
No, Bill, not foreign immigrants, just illegal foreign immigrants.
Queensgrl (NYC)
Fr. Bill you neglect to mention Daniel Patrick Moynihan's very telling comment so many years ago about the African American family structure or lack of it. How he was blacklisted among his brethren. Those words were never truer than they are today.
barb tennant (seattle)
Do what’s best for American citizens
Dennis (Saginaw)
Should I be surprised that it's a member of the Freedom Caucus that put additional provisions in the bill that all but guarantee failure? Until other members of the Republican Party are able to rein them in, there will be no progress.
Martin (New York)
Penalizing employers for hiring illegals is the only way to end the problem of illegal immigration. If illegals can't get jobs, they won't come. People claim that illegals often do jobs that citizens and legal residents are not willing to do. They would be willing for the right pay. Having illegals do work for peanuts is the equivalent of importing cheaper goods from low wage countries. You can't do that for service jobs, hence the illegals.
Bonku (Madison, WI)
GOP in general and Trump is particular support Investment based visa EB-5 (almost synonymous to Green card) to enable rich criminals from corrupt third world countries like China, Russia, India, Pakistan etc- where success in almost any field depends mostly on one's ability to exploit the prevailing culture of sycophancy, corruption and crime. Once they get green card or permanent residency, they can easily get citizenship with 5 years. Their spouse(s) and children are also eligible for the same benefit. USA already has its own corrupt and criminal minded rich businessmen and corporations - like Trump. We must not import more from abroad. That investment based visa program (EB-5) also needs to be scrapped.
Russell (Florida)
If the authoritarian government Trump and Republicans envision comes about we may have net emigration not immigration. Look at the role of immigrants in U.S past history of innovation. How many scientists and engineers of future top ten companies have already chosen Canada or Germany or other welcoming countries?
Joe O'Malley (Buffalo, NY)
AGAIN, please differentiate between illegal and legal immigrants.
bayboat65 (jersey shore)
So, not basically having open borders is now considered "hard line?"
A.A.F. (New York)
Decades upon decades and there is still immigration problems in this country. Issues on illegal and legal immigration needed to be rectified years ago by yours truly….our government, yet they failed to act. Now there exists a tremendous problem for everyone concerned, the government, immigrants whether they are legal / illegal, the American people and there is anger everywhere. The indecisiveness and callousness of this current administration is just making matters worse.
StanC (Texas)
It's entirely possible to agree that immigration laws and practices need revision while, at the same time, consider the matter of only modest importance. Immigrants, legal or otherwise, are not the principal problem the nation faces; not even close. For example, much more important are Russian intrusion into our election system, ongoing normalization of lockstep political toadyism, and Trump himself (who seemingly treats lying and self-serving greed as virtues).
Bev (TN)
Let's just quit calling the efforts "immigration reform." Let's call out the hard-right conservative group's efforts as what it really is: Latino and Muslim immigration reduction or elimination. They don't care about any other immigrant groups. Bigots.
Farqel (London)
Well, latinos and muslims seem to be the largest groups of migrants who want to come into the US, and seem to be willing to break any law to do it. What is bigoted about expecting migrants to follow the law? One could--and should note the HUGE number of illegal chinese migrants in the US--run into the US by great numbers of phony agencies in China. Might look at that also.
Blackmamba (Il)
The House Republicans' immigrant "hard-line" is softly loving with regard to European white female ethnic Slavic communist atheist Czechs-Ivana Trump- and Slovenians-Melania Trump who were professional models and beauty queens willing to marry and/or mate with the white Republican Christian men and one black Republican man in the House of Representatives.
Innovator (Maryland)
e-verify without some work permits is just the same as deportation ... without jobs people will just leave .. or the underground non-taxed, non-regulated labor pool will just go deeper underground with lower wages, poorer treatment of immigrants and even less chance of Americans getting these plum jobs. If you have 11 million people unable to get real jobs ... The meeting yesterday was very uplifting and oddly NYT chose not to allow comments. Now this nonsense and Trump's tweets ...
seeing with open eyes (north east)
But of course the drump etal will keep letting us compnies bring in foreign IT workers to get rid of Americans who have, through longevity gotten to expensive to support the ever growing executive bonus packages!
Jan G. Rogers (Havana, FL)
Thank you, Mr. Labrador. You have shown once again that the ideologically pure members of the Republican Party cannot govern, cannot find compromise. Your nasty little bill will pass the House, die in the Senate and prove once more that posturing and pronouncements are your #1 product.
Crow (New York)
That is a way to go. We need to abolish birth citizenship as well.
cheerful dramatist (NYC)
@crow, Yeah that is the way to go, everyone including whites who were born here must give up citizenship and even if their mothers and fathers were born here and their linage goes all the way back to the Mayflower, everyone in the country must give up their citizenship. Works for me.
BTO (Somerset, MA)
You might want to read Article 2, Sec 58 of the Constitution because without it we won't have a President or any citizens of this country.
Tom Q (Southwick, MA)
Here we are again. The House is poised to pass something that will not pass in the Senate and the Senate will likely pass something that will not get the full support of Republicans in the House. In the meantime, people get arrested, families are separated and more people come across the border illegally. In a few months, everyone will point fingers at everyone else and the problem will remain unsolved. And if anyone looks to the White House for clear leadership, they will be disappointed. Given that past efforts have failed and this one appears headed down the same path, why not try something truly different now? Appoint a joint conference committee of House and Senate members to hash out a new piece of legislation. Take that legislation to each body and have an up or down vote without consideration of the Hastert rule. Concurrently, secure a commitment from the president that he will take no action to change any immigration policy currently in place. Repeating the same process over and over again and expecting a different outcome is what most of us consider to be a sign of insanity. If a new approach can't be tested, perhaps this issue isn't as important to Congress as they would lead us to believe.
BM (NY)
If the Dems hadn't created this overly PC immigration s-storm to begin we would not either have Trump or the entire nation so divided. Everything that the Republicans are proposing are reasonable measures to counteract 30 years of non-enforcement of our immigration laws. The Dems got us in this mess with more foreign born citizens ever and ever increasing back door measures of allowing millions more illegal aliens to stay within our borders. Immigration, both legal and illegal, does not benefit the average American whatsoever. Many of see right through their tactics and now we have Trump. Thanks Democrats. What an absolute mess and mockery of our laws.
Mgaudet (Louisiana )
Look at this chart and you will see that immigration is not a Democrat only issue: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-popul...
Madeleine (Pennsylvania)
Republicans want to separate minors from their parents. Rip their families apart. Deprive children of loving parents. Condemn all of them to lifelong misery without their loved ones. But wait. Republicans believe in families. I know they do. They issue proclamations and laws on the value of families. So how is it possible to tear families apart but believe in families at the same time? Kindness, good will and honor have all but vanished from our American way of life. They are traits that made us the envy and the savior of the world. Is anyone even left who cares about what is kind, good, or honorable?
njglea (Seattle)
Another International Mafia operative heard from. Another supposed Mormon "religious" person heard from. According to Wikipedia, Raul was "Born in Carolina, Puerto Rico, Labrador relocated to Las Vegas, Nevada, as a child and graduated from Las Vegas High School in 1985. He was raised by a single mother who struggled financially. [3] He attended Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah, and spent two years as a Mormon missionary in Chile, from 1987 to 1989." Raul is "retiring" from Congress to run for governor of Idaho. Good People of Idaho MUST stop him with their votes. The United States of America has become the Land of Crooks, Liars and Destroyers. Do WE THE PEOPLE agree? If not we must each fight like hell to protect/preserve/restore the one thing WE value most about democracy in America - starting with OUR votes. Resist. Protest. March. Vote. NOW is the time! January 20 is the day!!! https://www.facebook.com/pg/WomensMarch2018USA/events/
seEKer (New Jersey)
No family-based migration for relatives other than spouses and minor children? So US citizens cannot bring into this country their adult children and parents? This is insanely cruel, splitting families apart permanently. The tradition of caring for their elderly is very strong in many cultures. Millions of current US citizens have parents living abroad, and the proposed law is saying that these citizens will never be allowed to bring their parents to live with them on US soil if their parents require care and help in their old age? We are not talking about illegal immigrants here. We are talking about citizens of this country, many of them have been US citizens for many decades, and, horrors, their family ties are sacred to them. Watch out, these citizens tend to vote.
Wolfie (MA)
How about all those white American citizens who move abroad at retirement? Shouldn’t their citizenship be removed? Shouldn’t they be forbidden from coming to the US to see their kids? They run out, pay no taxes here, but, still have the nerve to call themselves American citizens? EX Pats. Called EX for a reason. SS doesn’t go far in this country, but, take it to some 3rd world dive & they live like Barons, Dukes. With servants to do the dirty work, while they sip on mint juleps on the porch & order them around. Just like in the old south. Move out of the country, lose your citizenship permanently. Only way to keep it is by paying a large fee every year, say 99% of all SS & any other retirement savings. They can then live, eat, & work where they are, just like their servants.
Bridget Ann (Connecticut)
Why is enforcing our immigration laws even a question? Cracking down on illegal immigrant ion is what I expect our government and law enforcement to do. The only thing missing is controls on the widely abused H1B and other work visas, so hopefully we can get these added. I am so frustrated with the Democratic Party, and with my elected representatives. They are representing only one side of immigration, they aren’t listening to their constituents and they are going to lose elections.
dogtrnr12 (Argyle, NY)
The president widely abuses the H1B program to staff his Mar-A-Lago resort all the time.
Queensgrl (NYC)
So basically dog you didn't answer the question. why am I not surprised. Deflect always deflect. That's how progressives argue.
Ann (New York, NY)
The Mar-a-Lago situation involves the H-2B visa, not the H-1B visa. H-1B is a non-immigrant visa, and only tangentially connected to the immigration issue due to large number of visa holders applying for green cards. That said, it urgently needs to be addressed. It's the H-1B visa, among others, that is used to disemploy the middle class, especially older workers. While there are proposals on the table to do so, they are all unsatisfactory and likely will not help US-citizen workers much.
Luciano (Jones)
Isn't there a sensible middle ground we can all agree on? - DACA kids get to stay and become citizens - Democrats and Republicans agree on a zero future illegal immigrant policy. I have no idea if that means building a wall or beefing up border security or drones or whatever, but we can no longer tolerate people coming here illegally. - If you are here illegally but have never committed a crime and are either currently employed or demonstrate a solid work history you can stay. - If you are here illegally and have committed a crime you should be deported. - If you are here illegally and are not employed and cannot show a meaningful work history you should be deported. - Impost very strict penalties for anyone who hires an illegal immigrant. Severe enough that the consequences outweigh the benefits.
Margo (Atlanta)
If someone's here illegally then they do not have the right to work in this country and will never have valid proof of employment. Think about that. They need to leave.
KenInNh (God's Country)
Your first line nailed the problem... we've lost the ability to reach middle ground.
Saxton Pretzi (TN)
Work history is not a plus though. You're only supposed to hire non citizens if nobody else applies for the role. Having a job, while it demonstrates character, is competition with citizens.
Rob (NYC)
I hope the Democrats shut down the government over this. Lets see how that plays out. I can just see it now. Everything grinds to a halt because the Democrats following the wishes of their corporate benefactors in silicon valley and Hollywood would hurt our country because they want to continue allowing cheap labor in to this country. Go right ahead Democrats do that. Watch the Republicans gain more seats in 2018. Yea right. Contrary to popular belief its the Democrats that are the party of the rich. They do the corporations bidding while throwing crumbs to minorities and the poor.
book lover (Schenectady NY)
What a hoot! The Repubs can keep the government open all by themselves.
Wolfie (MA)
OK Rob, time to go get one of those ‘cheap labor’ jobs. When the immigrants who do them now are gone, someone better do them. That would be you. Quit whatever cushy job you have now & go to work as a less than minimum wage slave. No choices, no raises, just work. In fields, warehouses, homes of the middle class & wealthy. Next to no time off. Doff your cap when the misses walks by, and give a little bow. They like it, you don’t do it, you will be out of a job & unemployable has not being deferential enough to your betters. Then the only job you will be able to get is hard labor in prison. For you will steal to eat. Anyone would. I bet you would also just leave your wife & children destitute, move to a different city (by shanks mare, i.e. walking), try again. But, this isn’t the early 1900’s, communication is much better, so you will be unemployable everywhere. See, without the lowest paid, hardest working people in this country it will grind to a hault. So, the wealthy will make sure those underthem move further down & fill them. That means you, it means those retired on just SS (which with Medicare will disappear). No more safety net for anyone making under a million a year (which as money grows more worthless, will go up). All farms will soon all be BigFarma, with slave wages, less machinery (men are cheaper), no choice.
AKJ (Pennsylvania)
This is just grandstanding in search of a problem. The fact is that illegal immigration has fallen substantially in the last decade. All this wasted money used for extra border security, etc... is not going to fix our infrastructure, our schools, our health care - you name it. The Republican base has been fed one horror story after another about brown and black skinned people. All that this has accomplished is a rise in white nationalism and white terrorism.
G. Sears (Johnson City, Tenn.)
A quarter century of vapid Washington wrangling over America’s broken immigration patchwork and it seems nothing has moved very far off the dime. Trump, the art of deal guy, and Oval Office resident genus in charge is liken to a frantic chameleon in a crayon box changing his mind (term used very loosely) with every move. Add in the looming federal government shut down and what you get is more like a major melt down.
Djanga (Dallas, Tx)
Next, these publicity hounds plan to tear down the Statue of Liberty and replace it with one of Donald John Trump, in a traditional dictator pose. Hope these jokers have plans for their miserable lives after being swept out of office. Maybe McDonalds will be hiring.
Conservative Democrat (WV)
Several pithy comments asking “what native tribe did your ancestors belong to?” The real question should be, what lawful port of entry did your ancestors enter the country in compliance with US law, to which most will answer Elllis Island.
John (NC)
Or maybe Charleston, or Mobile, or New Orleans. Every 4th or 5th generation “legal” in America isn’t white, you know.
Marie (Boston)
The GOP sold the farm to the oligarchs in the tax plan and they know they are going to get beat up on that highly unpopular bill in the next election. So they need something to counter it. The Democrats are being set up here. If they fight any reasonable measure on immigration than they are giving the Republicans an issue they can campaign on where hatred of others is greater than hatred of the businesses and wealthy who benefited most from the tax plan. They will be able to say - see, those Democrats allowed all THOSE people to come in to the country and take YOUR money (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain who really has all the money).
Kristen (TC)
Watching the Democrats closely on this compromise. We need a resolution to this issue not more gridlock. Democrats have been failing to bring bipartisan compromise and solutions for so many years they need to actually do something if they want more support.
William Case (United States)
Congress should grant DACA enrollees citizenship—not just a pathway to citizenship—as part of a legislative package that includes measures to prevent future illegal immigration. This legislation should (1) authorize state, county and city police to enforce federal immigration laws; (2) empower states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions; (3) make E-Verify mandatory nationwide; (4) change asylum policy to automatically deny asylum to anyone who enters the country illegally and (5) end family-based migration for all relatives other than spouses and minor children.. As a separate measure, Congress should start a process to reinterpret or, if necessary, amend the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents. With these measure in effect, we wouldn’t need a border wall. However, Congress could pacify President Trump by strengthening the existing border fence and naming it the “Donald Trump Border Wall.” Once Trump leave office, we could tear down the wall.
Queensgrl (NYC)
William and what do you tell those who have faithfully followed the rules AND the law and have been patiently waiting for citizenship. Get to the back of the line.
William Case (United States)
Granting DACA enrollees citizenship won't affect legal immigration.
Phyliss Dalmatian (Wichita, Kansas)
Please Proceed, GOP. One word: NOVEMBER.
Ricky (Texas)
I heard that Democrats might not go along with funding for the wall, but put money in for buying one way tickets for the dreamers to put the monkey where it actually belongs, the GOP party. This "so called" is responsible for making the dreamers unsafe, and now using them for ransom or a bartering tool for his sad wall. What happen to Mexico paying for said wall? This belongs to #45 and the GOP congress at the end of the day. The majority of Americans will see it that way if the dreamers are treated unfairly.
tom (midwest)
Agree with one provision of the bill, use of E verify. Too many businesses run by both conservatives and liberals are hiring illegal immigrants. As to the sanctuary city, what do they define as a sanctuary city? My two nearest municipalities stated they were a sanctuary city with only one caveat. Immigration status would be checked only if the individual was jailed for a crime, not if you were just stopped by police and/or given a ticket.
Jim Tagley (Naples, FL)
We need to overturn the quaint, archaic, and outdated 14th amendment which was passed when we were trying to populate the country. Illegals are sneaking into the U.S. and giving birth and their children are automatic American citizens. Then there is a new phenomenon called birth tourism. Mostly Russian and Chinese women arrive here 8 months pregnant, give birth here to an American citizen, take the baby back to Russia or China, then 17 years later have the child go to college here as an American citizen, then petition the U.S. government to bring his parents over through a sponsorship program. It's a scam no other country would allow.
RLW (Chicago)
How many immigrants are actually children of "birth tourists" ? This comment is a good example of how something as irrelevant because it is so uncommon as birth tourism, which probably accounts for a miniscule fraction of 1% of all immigrants, is used to obfuscate the real issue. Just like Trump's rapists and terrorists crossing the Mexican border. As we all know from the false mainstream media's news reports, almost all of the mass murderers in this country have been home grown White men, not immigrants. By the way wasn't it Trump's son-in-law's family who were 'selling' American permanent resident visas to Russians as part of a real estate deal?
Jim Tagley (Naples, FL)
I'm not defending Trump. He is of such poor character and makeup as to defy defense. I'm attacking immigration. Any kind, be it illegal, legal, H1B, birth tourism, chain migration, lottery migration, etc. We already have far too many people in this country.
Confused (Atlanta)
Democrats are so eager to admit immigrants, let’s do this: let each immigrant who enters the country be assigned to a willing American with a spare bedroom. That comrade would house, feed, clothe, educate and oversee their every need as well as assume complete responsibility for any illegal act until they can be found worthy of permanent resident status—something akin to being a parent. They would also be individually responsible for paying additional taxes to accomplish the administrative cost. Are there any Times readers who would object to this? I would certainly hope not based on what I generally read in these pages from those who want few or no border protection laws. The problem with most advocates of open borders is an unwillingness to accept the consequences and an unwillingness to pay the price. Aside from my suggestion the only other solution is laws! It is about time we have some laws that we will enforce.
RLW (Chicago)
Sounds like a good idea, lots of Americans would be willing to support immigrant families, as many already do. Doubt that too many selfish Republicans would be among those willing to do this. By the way, I suspect that most knowledgeable economists would be able to demonstrate that most immigrants add more to the economy than they take from it.
Turgid (Minneapolis)
Half of the country votes like a drunk teenager standing up in the back of a moving pickup truck in the dark. They just want to see what happens. Well, this is what happens.
Nomad (FL)
How will Trump manage to run his golf courses without Mexican immigrants to do the work? He'll have to pay Americans more. Oh, silly me: Of course he'll fix the system so he is permitted to still continue "importing" cheap labor.
KF (North Carolina)
That's how he got the workers for the season at Mar-a-Lago. Hid a miniscule ad in the employment pages without the name of the resort and told people to fax in their application. Real Americans tried to get the jobs and were not even interviewed.
Anita (Richmond)
No one has had the political will to tackle immigration. That is why Trump won the election. Americans are sick and tired of the unfettered immigration that has taken place for the past two decades. Something needs to be done. We have laws. Enforce them. We can't really fix healthcare until we fix immigration. Trump's strategy is working so far. Some people don't like it but I have too many friends who followed the rule of law and came into this country legally on H1-B visas. Wages will rise when we deal with immigration. It's a supply and demand issue.
USDLinNL (Land of the Dutch)
"Wages will rise when we deal with immigration." If you believe in this fallacy, you have been sold a bill of goods. But, then, again you can go pick avocados on them California farms.
Demosthenes (Chicago)
Democrats should stay strong and be smart. Demand a clean DACA bill be passed as a prerequisite to supporting the budget resolution. The GOP Freedumb Caucus anti-immigration bill can be “considered” later. Ignore it.
DO5 (Minneapolis)
There’s nothing like the image of hoards of potential criminals and terrorist rushing through the breaches in The Wall overwhelming the brave, law-protecting Republican Congress-people to gin up the base. Being tough on criminals, except those good men like future senator Arpaio, Republicans are resurrecting their platform of fear. This only clashes with Trump-off-script. In the televised White House meeting, the frightened look on the faces of Republicans as Trump went off the reservation getting soft on immigration clarified this meeting a show. The later walking back by Trump, Pence and others showed there is no such thing as a Trump position. His history shows he will agree to any contract or point of view later to abandon that position when it suits him. He will remember the racist dog whistles that got him to where he is and get in line with the immigration hardliners.
Josh (New York, NY)
Honest 2-part question for anyone who would like to explain please: "It was not clear if the proposal would ever come up for a vote in the House..." 1) What's the point of proposing something if, for the reasons outlined in this story, it was extremely unlike to come up for vote or get passed? 2) And given all that, why is this news?
Ken (MT Vernon, NH)
The objective in immigration reform is to fix the broken immigration system. There is a mismatch of objectives. Democrats want nothing to change other than granting a large batch of illegal aliens amnesty. Republicans are more in line with the public. We should make it required of employers to use eVerify. We should re-examine how we choose immigrants and move more towards skills based immigration. We should improve border security. We must not allow sanctuary cities to defy federal immigration law. The Democrats may declare that any improvement to the immigration system other than giving amnesty to illegals is deemed “hard line”, however, when elections come, the Dems will be surprised at how large a percentage of the population is sick of a broken immigration system and thus consider themselves hard line.
LaLa (Paris)
Before anyone starts screaming foul again, let's remember that Obama did something very very similar in his first months in office: direct US companies not to hire foreigners on visas or that would require visas. Sorry, but when it comes to legal migration, Trump is only somewhat worse than Obama: Trump wants to dismantle the core-American feature that is the Diversity Lottery. Maybe he wants to do so that nobody can dream anymore anywhere in the world. He ought to be chased from the White House, just like Obama should never have been pushed over Hillary Clinton by the establishment.
Jan (Philadelphia)
Trump will have to replace most of his long term service staff at Mara Logo. Sad.
Patrick Hasburgh (Leucadia, CA)
It's becoming a cliche, I know — but the Republican Party cannot govern. They are incapable of governing... a confederacy of dunces (apologies to JK Toole.)
Patrick Hasburgh (Leucadia, CA)
It's becoming a cliche, I know — but the Republican Party cannot govern. They are incapable of governing... a confederacy of dunes (apologies to JK Toole.)
Jack (Boston)
There is never any need for family separation. It is their choice. Both the parents and children can go back together. Problem solved.
John (Brooklyn)
The liberal church I attend has a sign in the breakroom, "E-Verify User Here." What is the issue? If your parents sneak you into Disneyland, do you get to stay because you had a dream to see a princess? IF amnesty passes, basically we are saying there are no rules anymore, no laws. If you claim to have a dream, you can ignore any law. It is anarchy and total collapse of the social contract. Never, never, never.
Jude Parker Smith (Chicago, IL)
This is their whole 2018 platform. They got nothing else to whine about.
nomad127 (New York/Bangkok)
If the Democrats care so much about the DACA recipients and are serious about reaching a bipartisan solution, they will have to consider this proposal. Here is the bill: •Eliminates the Visa Lottery green card program •Eliminates Chain Migration and creates a renewable temporary visa for parents of citizens to unite families at no cost to taxpayers •Reduces legal immigration levels by about 260,000 a year – a decrease of about 25% •Reforms the agricultural guest worker program •Sends additional ICE agents to more high-risk embassies overseas to vet visitors and immigrants •Provides additional technology, roads and other tactical infrastructure to secure the border •Adds 5,000 Border Patrol Agents and 5,000 CBP Officers •Requires full implementation of the biometric entry/exit system at all air, land, and sea ports of entry •Makes E-Verify Mandatory for all employers •Authorizes the Department of Justice to withhold law enforcement grants from sanctuary cities •Allows DHS to detain dangerous illegal immigrants who cannot be removed •Reduces asylum fraud by tightening the “credible fear” standard to root out frivolous claims and increases penalties for fraud/terminates asylum for individuals who voluntarily return home •Grants amnesty to DACA recipients by issuing a 3-year renewable visa with work permit. Nothing but common sense. If the Democrats are prepared to shut down a country of 320,000 million for the DACA recipients, this is a no brainer.
Queensgrl (NYC)
The Dems will lose again if they put the needs of DACA recipients ahead of American Citizens. Count on it.
Margo (Atlanta)
The Demo will lose if they put the WANTS of DACA... There, I fixed that for you.
terry brady (new jersey)
Shutting down the government would eradicate the Trump mantle of business, negotiations skills forever. This would set up a Biden/Oprah ticket three years out and make Trump early lame duck
Eero (East End)
At least one of the provisions of the proposed legislation is plainly unconstitutional. There's only one solution - deport the Republicans. Not a one of them is actually American.
SergioNegro (North Carolina)
Democrats need to stand for a sensible and fair immigration policy. What is proposed by Republicans is neither sensible nor fair. Democrats should be honest and firm in standing against it.
Henry J (Durham)
Republican = Trump. This President will sign any bill passed by this Congress without reading beyond the title. As the tax bill exemplifies, Republicans, nearly incapable of governing, have achieved so little that any bill that passes, no matter how flawed, is celebrated as a great achievement.
Gyns D (Illinois)
The points mentioned in the proposal, mirror Sen.Cotton version. 3 Year Daca, should also extend to all Guest work worker programs including H1, L1, etc. No citizenship path. It does not address the other issue, "what bout DACA Parents", the folks who broke US law by coming here illegally, working without paying taxes, using false id's etc..
Margo (Atlanta)
No. The so-called skilled worker visas - which have been badly abused and little audited - are not meant as a path to permanent immigration. H1b, L1 and even B1 visas should not entitle the holder to a green card - especially when used improperly in to first place. They have harmed countless American STEM workers and should not be further rewarded. Enough is enough.
George (Vt)
I'm confused. On the one hand; illegal immigrants (11 million ) taking jobs, not paying taxes etc., on the other hand Dreamers; temporary status folks (1.5 million or -), on the books, keeping out of trouble, traceable, yet potentially under threat of deportation. Deporting 11 million people is impossible. A reset of our immigration laws is necessary. How about giving the Dreamers the reward they deserve for being under the kind of scrutiny that no law abiding citizen would tolerate, the documented temporary folks as well. This would be a start and alleviate the inhuman pressure these folks are going through. If the 11 million see that it's safe to come out of the shadows and allow themselves to be put under the same scrutiny as the Dreamers etc. then come up with a way to let them remain. I'm not talking citizenship here, I'm talking about millions of people allowing an intrusive examination of their lives in order to gain the right to work in jobs that Americans won't do for the wages offered. Finally, fix the problem of people being able to come into this county illegally, no matter what it takes; walls, drones, officers, E-verify, what have you. The details of who gets to come in legally can be tweaked, make it more like Canada's system; based on the needs of the economy and help for refugees.
Karin (Long Island)
They are concerned with maintaining the rule that no republican house will pass a bill without the majority of the conference. Not passing legislation that will actually help the counrty.
Mjxs (Springfield, VA)
Since the birth-rate among the native-born American population is falling below the sustainment level (as is Western Europe and Japan) immigration is a key component to have a young workforce. This workforce is necessary to maintain a social safety net for older Americans. Republicans don’t have a plan for this safety net, other than it’s destruction.
Margo (Atlanta)
Nobody is saying a moratorium on immigration, this is a way to adjust immigration to the needs of the country.
Jennifer Ward (Orange County, NY)
What is it about the process that cause people to bypass going through the system legally? What is like to try to get in legally through a proper agency in South America? This aspect is rarely discussed, yer there must be a rampant problem with it or people would certainly prefer it. Are US sponsored agencies in these countries free of bribery and safe? Are we representing ourselves in our "problem" countries in such a way that the would be illegal would be inspired to sign up for a proper entry into the US? Do we advertise in these countries how to do it legitimately and what will happen if you come illegally? This does not sound like they are reforming the immigration process in any way-just a bunch of flashy political demagoguery.
Thomaspaine17 (new york)
I am a lifelong democrat but I have to say this: When did immigration become the sole overarching concern of the democratic party? The democratic party has to get back to its comfort zone which is protection for union jobs and union workers. The republicans have succeeded through guile and media manipulation to move the democratic party off center branding them the party that wants to let in floods of immigrant who lets face it will have no problem taking a job from a natural born American, cross a picket line, or just work for less, these are serious concerns and have nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, these are the concerns of the man in the street...the kind of guy who more and more is feeling forgotten by the democratic party.
don46 (Augusta, GA)
The DACA fix is really very simple. It is time the Congress got this right. For the record, convert all registered DACA to Permanent Resident status and end the controversy. Current immigration laws cover Permanent Residents. NO! to amnesty and automatic citizenship. Far too much time has been spent on DACA.
urmyonlyhopeobi1 (Miami)
It looks like we're going to have a government shutdown, unless the Dems blink again and kowtow to the GOP. I hope not, I hope the right thing is done and the Dreamers are taken care of, but don't hold your breath. If the Dreamers are again sacrificed, it's time to overhaul the so called Democratic leadership in Congress.
ACJ (Chicago)
I thought Republicans were the party of big business---and, no big businessman or women I read wants strong immigration rules---in fact quite the opposite. Immigration is good for business, very good. Should be noted that if you read the last names of the COE's of the top Fortune 500 firms, Anglo-Saxon last names seem to be in the minority.
E. Connors (NY State)
I'm quite sure that any cutbacks on immigration would hurt the 1% (and the current President) in their drive to hire "guest workers."
Meg (Troy, Ohio)
For those of us who oppose Trump and the ever more right-wing radical GOP, what MAGA means is very clear. The Republicans want to end illegal and most legal immigration. It is what their scared white base wants as well. Immigration policy will be used over the next 7 years to remove through deportation and incarceration every person of color possible. It has already begun. If this ever whiter America is not what most of us want or believe to be fair and just, then we are going to have to vote in every election, raise our voices to our elected representatives in protest, run for office, and perhaps take to the streets. We cannot take any of our freedoms or democratic principles for granted any longer. They are all under siege with Trump and his administration.
Conservative Democrat (WV)
I blame Pelosi and company for repeatedly putting the needs of non-citizens who did not enter legally or timely leave the country when thei visa expired ahead of our working class whose real wages have been stagnant for decades. Eleven million people are illegally in our country, yet the Democrats—also sworn to uphold the law— won’t negotiate on a wall and border security? The Dreamers should stay with a path to citizenship but there must be some significant quid pro quo to end illegal immigration going forward.
Michael (Boston)
I may be cynical, but since it is an election year it seems members of the House who have campaigned on resentment and xenophobia must maintain that stance to withstand a primary challenge. This is a sad state of affairs for the country because common sense and bi-partisan changes to immigration law could improve lives for many and satisfy most voters. Unfortunately, I don't think any meaningful compromise worked out by the Senate could pass the House with its current make-up.
Luciano (Jones)
Here is an interesting question: What if the many millions of illegal immigrants were not mostly Mexican-Central American but were instead Evangelical white Christians who were overwhelmingly pro-life and against gay marriage. Would the Democrats and Republicans have different positions on this issue?
Steve W (Ford)
I'd like to hear from the open borders crowd at the NTY's how many people they think we need in this country? Is 330 million not enough? Do we need 400 million? Half a billion? A billion? No limit? I happen to think that we already have plenty of people in our country and we need to be careful about allowing anyone who wants to come in, in! Turning LA into Mexico City will NOT be an improvement.
James (Waltham, MA)
It's probably a little late to ask this question, but has anyone ever thoroughly analyzed the economic consequences of mass deportation and a severe tightening of legal immigration? If we have "millions" of illegals and at least some of them are working, who will fill those jobs? It's my understanding that we're close to full employment. For those who are underemployed, it's not likely that their situation will improve when low level jobs held by illegal immigrants open up.
A Reader (Huntsville)
I don't think the Republicans thought that far ahead. In Alabama several ago we drove most out and the companies suffered greatly, particularly in the farm industry. The government at that time had a program to import Africans for other industries and that helped, but the citizens of Alabama did not want these jobs. And that was a time when we had high unemployment. This issue is the white only one.
CNNNNC (CT)
The government counts as unemployed people who don't have a job, have "actively looked" for one in the previous four weeks, and are available for work’ It doesn’t count people who have dropped out of the labor; stopped looking even though they are able to work orvtge millions of part time workers who would take an available full time job
Conservative Democrat (WV)
James- well, one likely outcome is that the law of supply and demand for labor will cause real wages for men to rise for the first time since 1973.
npomea (MD)
The focus needs to be on the radicalization of people already living here, not on these immigrants. It's scapegoating and ugly.
Jake (NY)
Let's stop pretending that the GOP is a party for all people, it isn't. It is by word and deed, a party of White people. They have clearly demonstrated that time and time again, some openly, some privately, and some using the cover of a political agenda to hide it. Just look at Trump, his cabinet, and his good old boys together for photo ops. Nothing but a sea of white folks which is no way or fashion represents the true makeup of America. They are what they are, a party of White Supremacist, bigots, and racists. Any other excuse or storyline is just simply dishonest.
Steve W (Ford)
Unrestricted immigration hurts POC most so what you say makes no sense. The Democrats are the open borders party a policy which has disastrous consequences for poor blacks and lower class whites, the very people the left claims to champion. This is a feature not a bug of Democrat policy and they depend upon the confusion of people like you to ensure they can continue this hypocritical stance.
CS (Ohio)
It’s the party of citizens who don’t think their nation should be open season just because people want a better life. Illegal immigrants cost a great deal of money, Time, and lives—not to mention the damage they do to the American myth of integration and melting.
Jake (NY)
First off, immigration from the Southern border has been going down year after year. Two, let's not use the "poor and blacks" as the point of your narrative as this is completely false. Blacks and the poor are not deprived of a job by some Mexican coming across the border, they are deprived because of economic disparity, educational and job opportunities, geography, and a policy that invests in those with more than those with less. There is nothing in this Administration that promotes an environment of opportunities for Blacks and the poor. It is convenient for them to blame some folks coming across the border than their intentional failure to address the real problems. Promising poor folks who are unemployed because of coal mining job loss, that mines will again flourish is simply dishonest and not supported. Nor is their any real effort to change they dynamics that would promote jobs and job opportunities in deprived areas. This isn't about left vs right, this is about reality, not some false narrative being offered by the GOP to pander to their base. You can't convince anybody that if the problem was in the Northern border, you would have such an outcry as you would from the Southern border. We know what kind of people live in the Northern border and we know who lives on the Southern border. No wall will make a difference in the living circumstances of poor whites or blacks. Your argument holds no truth or facts, just nonsense.
a reader (Huntsvlle al)
The Republicans would like to kick everyone out but people that look like them. We sure need a turnover in Congress.
Jim Muncy (Crazy, Florida)
Yes, because most white Americans want it that way. Birds of a feather flock together out of choice and a sense of safety; it's baked-in, bro. We can, and probably should, fight to overcome this prejudice, but it's an against-the-current direction. Wish we were all saints.
WiseGuy (MA)
Where does it say in any bill or proposal that only people with certain looks or skin color will be kicked out ?
Pilot (Denton, Texas)
This is exactly what Trump has been calling for and is greatly needed. Otherwise, we are going to continue a trend mirroring India, China and Mexico. Those are horrible options.
WmC (Lowertown, MN)
What is the “This” you are referring to that is “exactly what Trump has been calling for...”? What he “calls for” in his first sentence is typically 180 degrees from what he calls for in his second sentence.
Queensgrl (NYC)
I don't understand the controversy. The "T" in TPS does stand for temporary. The program was never meant to have people stay here on a permanent basis. And automatic American birthright should end once and for all. No other country allows those that come here through illegal means and give their offspring automatic citizenship. It's ludicrous.
BTO (Somerset, MA)
If you end the birthright of citizenship, how do the future generations of Americans become citizens of this country?
Margo (Atlanta)
This is about repealing the amendment to the constitution which allowed children born in the US of non-citizens to have citizenship.
Jim Muncy (Crazy, Florida)
Ludicrous or open-mindedness? All Americans, except natives, of course, come from elsewhere. Most people are assets, if you want to look at it economically, and make life worthwhile, psychologically speaking.
KK (Florida)
So let me understand the Republican proposal: - verify someone is, in fact, legally here through e-verify at place of employment; okay, seems reasonable - allow for detention of minors when parents are caught illegally crossing; if the parents are caught crossing with them, where should the minors go? You can't have them wandering the streets by themselves. If a provision is created to "not take children away and the parents are not detained" - great loophole for people entering...can I borrow you kid and he/she stays in the US. - tough sentences for criminals who are deported and return; as they are criminals (but that would need to be defined specifically, jaywalking versus assault are two different things); not set with this one yet - DACA gets three year waiver; believe they need a "path" to citizenship they must follow with the waiver in place; cannot just give it to citizenship. What about all those that became citizens legally? - sanctuary cities; not sure how this would work. If a city "blocks" or "impedes," then possibly. But to not assist is fair -
Greg Corwin (Independence KY)
It seems simple to me, many of the items the GOP wants are reasonable. The only objectionable items are the Wall and ended grants for sanctuary cities. Compromise on the Wall and fund a portion in problem areas. Stand firm on DACA. Heck, even give them a win on the grants. "Why?", you ask? November. If the Democrats can be blamed for a government shut down there may only be marginal gains in Nov. Keeping an eye on the horizon will pay in spades, and the work of reigning in the disaster of an administration can begin.
LonnyA (Ponte Vedra Beach FL)
What is the matter with these people? They are going to separate minor children from their parents at the border???? So much for the family values crowd. Their obsession with border security is turning them into insensitive monsters. We are a nation of 330 million people, a couple of thousand minor children are going to do exactly what harm to us??????? Republicans have become tone deaf to the majority of the American people.
Steve W (Ford)
So you would rather see the children brought here unaccompanied? Or do you support allowing the parents in as well in order to "preserve" the family? Neither position makes sense, Of course the children, and their parents, need to be repatriated to their homeland otherwise you open a huge loophole in our border.
Jack (Boston)
There is never any need for family separation. It is their choice. The parents and the children can go back together. Problem solved.
BM (NY)
Children should not be trafficked over international borders. It is not only illegal but highly dangerous. This is what happens when you do this to your child.
Lazza May (London)
Trump's contribution to the discussion on immigration was twofold: 1. Let's talk about earmarks, and 2. I'll do whatever you guys decide. Laughable.
Avi (Texas)
There appear to be a lot of knee jerking reactions against any immigration measure proposed by the GOP. Some of these make a lot of sense, like stop hiring of illegal immigrants, plug the loophole of letting in minors who are arrested at the border with their parents, revoke so called diversity visa lottery program, and end chain family immigration.
alexgri (New York)
This is hardly a hard-line immigration plan. Just a belated, welcome and organized effort to enforce the existing laws. The Dems should support the wall, which is a measly 360 miles tall fence, not some 2000 miles of majestic structure, eVerify, and a switch to a merit-based immigration and policies that will lead to wage raises across the most vulnerable Americans. The Democrats have been in power 2/3s of the time since the early 90s and, as such, they are responsible for what has occurred since then: - wage stagnation - 95 million Americans out of the labor force or in the gig economy shift sands - 30 percent of Americans having a negative net worth (debt). - cost of living and rents and home prices and medical prices and education tuition that much outpaced income. If they want to recapture the House and the Senate, the Democrats should focus on fixing the immigration system and its ill well-documented effects on American life, as much as they focus on the welfare of illegal immigrants, if not more.
Djt (Norcal)
The Democrats controlled congress and the presidency for a period of two years since 1994. 2 our of 23 is not equal to 2/3.
Matt Carnicelli (Brooklyn, NY)
Please, the wall proposal is idiotic. If I were a Mexican who wanted to cross into the US, I would obtain a passport and buy a plane ticket instead of giving my cash to a smuggler or attempt to undertake a dangerous physical journey.
Sheila (3103)
Nice try to revise history, but the GOP started this mess in 1980 when they elected Reagan. It's been all downhill since then.
Brian in FL (Florida)
Wow, enforcing the law. As should be done. All those here illegaly should be forced go leave immediately. Birthright citizenship must end. The process to facilitate legal immigration should be overhauled and steamlined to be more efficient and more selective. It is beyond repulsive to see people who broke laws to enter this country receive favorable treatment over those who attempt to enter via the legal processes that millions wait in line for.
Jim Muncy (Crazy, Florida)
So you choose justice over mercy. Fair enough: At least you -- and we -- know where you stand. Either logical category (above) has merit. We must, however, avoid injustice and cruelty, which I imagine you'd agree with; so the best answer is somewhere in the middle, as Aristotle counsels. (That philosophy degree is still paying off, as it always has in every way except monetarily. Oh, well, one can't have it all, eh?)
Karin (Long Island)
Citizenship in the place your are born is international law. This must never, ever be changed in the United State.
Dudesworth (Kansas)
I agree in sprit with what you are saying but the type of absolutism you are talking about doesn’t translate to the real world. It’s the type of thing Republicans always talk about doing but in the end the laws become a muddle due to all the interests involved. The people that are here should be offered a path to citizenship. It will take decades to deport them and the vast majority contribute greatly to our society.
Kosher Dill (In a pickle)
Somebody needs to investigate, and publish, the facts about how every GOP lawmaker's ancestors came to the US.
Conservative Democrat (WV)
Kosher Dill- I’ll wager such a study will show they came legally, through Ellis Island. So, what’s your point?
Kosher Dill (In a pickle)
I'll take that wager, Conserv. Actually with all of the ancestry databases out there now, it should be pretty easy for some enterprise reporter to do, at least for the GOP senators.
Sheila (3103)
And how they obtained their money.
Henry Don Miranda (London)
We are Witnessing today police, sheriff,judges and district attorneys using civilians as test dummies to fill jails and prisons receiving payroll incentives and stock options from corporations such as The American Corrections Corporation whom handle funds for all law enforcement and judges in the United States filling their pocket books as well as political and social agendas on the blood of innocent and those of less fortune. Several Members of the Justice Department,White House, Congress, U.S. Senate and Law Universities including Jeff Sessions own these corporations or major stock in the private corporations that handle projects and funds for the Prison systems in America.
Paul (Brooklyn)
Very true James, trump is just a figure head ego maniac demagogue stooge. However, if I am correct the reps., need 60 votes in the Senate to pass a budget and need app. 10 democratic senators. It is now time for the democrats to show leadership ie, bargain tough(not weak like they usually do) but not tough enough to make it look like they want to shut down the gov't.
craig80st (Columbus,Ohio)
Portrait of a government without compassion and of politicians without vision. Also demonstrates a house divided will fall. There is so much anger and angst, closed fists and crossed arms, and not enough open arms and hands, and warm welcoming and encouraging voices forced to speak outside of chambers. This attitude does not make America great again. It betrays our founding spirit and resurrects our bad spirits like the Salem Witch Trials. 43 said he was the "Decider" and 45 said "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, gee, I want this or I want that." 45 is not a decider and does not follow in the footsteps of President Lincoln who had a clear vision for the whole country, the Union.
vulcanalex (Tennessee)
Government is to make laws, not to have compassion, that is for charity.
MIMA (heartsny)
It’s rough living through so many previous decades, realizing prejudice and its support with “invented” reasoning is still alive in this country. Hang our heads. Ms. Liberty is.
bayboat65 (jersey shore)
Lady Liberty doesnt want unchecked illegal immigration.
Marigrow (Deland, Florida)
The tsunami of legal and illegal immigrants has seriously degraded the quality of life in the USA for ordinary Americans over the last 50 years. But the oligarchs of both parties, Democrat and Republican, don't care as their primary interests are cheap labor and votes. In any case, the oligarchs live in an affluent bubble where the increasing competition for housing, jobs, etc. doesn't affect them. In the interests of average Americans, the USA needs to implement all the policies that will expel illegal immigrants and seriously reduce the flood of legal immigrants.
D. Jones (Decatur, GA)
"The tsunami of legal and illegal immigrants has seriously degraded the quality of life in the USA for ordinary Americans over the last 50 years." Well, not exactly a tsunami in our commentator's town of Deland, Fl. 2014 demographics: White: 20,742 (74.42%) Black: 4,381 (15.72%) Hispanic: 4,129 (14.81%) Asian: 824 (2.96%) Native (American Indian, Alaska Native, Hawaiian Native, etc.): 59 (0.21%,
Jim Muncy (Crazy, Florida)
You make good points, especially reducing or eliminating new illegal immigrants. But removing the ensconced, decent illegals here now may be unwise, costly, and mean-spirited. It's a complicated problem requiring, I think, a complex answer. We need a nuanced solution, not a bulldozer, in this thorny, convoluted situation, eh? We're messing with, and possibly ruining, people's lives here.
Lily (Florida)
You don't have any proof to state that immigrants "have seriously degraded the quality of life in U.S." Republicans and democrats bought by special interests keep failing average Americans for decades now. Republicans keep degrading the land with their anti environmental regulation agenda and giving away public lands for drilling. Getting big money out of politics is the main issue people from the right and left should be fighting for. Building a wall and getting rid of brown people won't improve quality of life for the average american. For generations, people are taught to not question the system, but to simply blame immigrants. We have not learned to be more humane and nuanced.
BTO (Somerset, MA)
This bill makes little to no sense. Why would you detain minors and separate them from their parents and why would you offer work permits with no path to citizenship? Also your article talks about an anti-immigrant fervor, yes Trump suffers from that but the majority of this country doesn't.
Colenso (Cairns)
'It would require employers to use an Internet-based system, known as E-Verify, to confirm that they are hiring only legal workers;' When American employers who knowingly or unknowingly employ undocumented workers, intentionally or unintentionally, are sent to jail, their personal and business assets seized, illegal immigration into the USA will dry up before you can say Robinson Crusoe. Won't happen, of course. Too many of Trump's rich cronies would be affected. As would Trump have been, had the then rules been enforced properly when he employed undocumented Polish workers on his New York building site. As indeed would Trump today, as he continues to employ immigrant workers, many of whom are of dubious legitimacy, in his US resorts. It's always so much easier and more convenient to go after the little people, the poor and the weak, isn’t it Mr Trump?
Kelvin (New York)
Immigration is without a doubt a complicated issue, and these talks, legal proceedings, and legislatures are not making them any less complicated. To those affected by such laws, the situation is very simple, will I or will I not have to leave my home.
Livin the Dream (Cincinnati)
Immigration has become a quagmire of conflicting ideas and partisanship. Where is the evidence that immigration is at all harmful? Immigrants certainly are not taking away jobs. Immigrants are not committing crimes at any rate near the average. Hard-line Republicans can squawk all they want. They do not represent very many of us.
Confused (Atlanta)
Liberal ideas like this is what creates problems. I find it somewhat like parents who teach no discipline to their children.
CNNNNC (CT)
“Illegal immigration does have some undeniably negative economic effects. Similarly skilled native-born workers are faced with a choice of either accepting lower pay or not working in the field at all. Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.” https://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-act...
Ken Sayers (Atlanta, GA)
I understand that there are those who simply strive to be (choose your own utterly nasty epithet) What I don't understand is how they all ended up in the GOP. When did we become so mean?
JA (MI)
There is nothing in the gop that resembles kindness or compassion. Just a lot of thinly veiled bigotry and mean spiritedness.
bayboat65 (jersey shore)
Why is not wanting open borders and unchecked immigration "mean?'
silver (Virginia)
The president's vacillation between supporting the Dreamers one minute, then deporting them the next gives ammunition to both Democrats and hard-line Republicans. He encourages a bipartisan solution to the immigration issue, yet Republicans doubt his commitment and insist on strict measures that Democrats will not support, thus creating the possibility of a government shutdown, which neither party wants. As for his signature campaign promise to his base about a border wall and his stated desire to protect the Dreamers, the president must decide which is more important, the future of these children or a symbol of American isolation. This is the choice a president makes, and the office he ran for.
Physicist (Plainsboro, NJ)
The Republican bill sounds great for Americans--especially Americans who are in low-wage jobs. Large numbers of additional low skill workers seems an unlikely requirement for a well functioning economy. Their importation, legally and illegally, reduces the wages and job prospects of vulnerable Americans as well as involving enormous costs--both to government and to the medical system. All government expenditures are approximately $16,000 per resident per year and additional medical costs are about $7000. Less than half of the the US residents are workers, so the costs to society per worker is over $50,000. How can anyone who cares about Americans want to subsidize the entry of low wage workers by more than $50,000 each?
CNNNNC (CT)
"Ever since the mid-1960s, the majority of immigrants to the country (about 65 percent in 2015) have been admitted on purely economic grounds, having been evaluated under a nine-point rubric that ignores their race, religion and ethnicity and instead looks at their age, education, job skills, language ability and other attributes that define their potential contribution to the national work force" https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/opinion/canada-immigration-policy-tru... Canada's Point System is based on Language skills, work experience, education, age and adaptability. Why should we not be allowed the same right to determination? Why should we be an open drain for the world? Why should we tolerate unfettered mass lawless opportunism? Our values should not be 'ignore whatever laws are inconvenient to your own self gain.' And our so called representatives should be enforcing laws without regard to political privilege. A country cannot function for the good of its own people if there is an unrelenting free flow of migrants exempt from its laws, its costs and responsibilities. That would be no society worth participating in.
Leigh (Qc)
It would offer three-year renewable work permits to DACA recipients, without offering them a path to citizenship. The cruelty of Repubs knows no bounds. Young hearts are sinking all over America.
Confused (Atlanta)
Democrats may find it unpalatable but the US needs border protection laws. Let the Republicans state their case and democrats state their case to establish a beginning point for negotiations. Isn’t that how agreements are eventually reached? Didn't Trump suggest locking everybdy in a room until some agreement is reached? Sounds like a perfect solution to me. Let them starve until they can reach a consensus. As far as I am concerned we can carry them out on stretchers if they can’t get their act together.
Mark Holbrook (Wisconsin Rapids, WI)
Don’t you just love how individuals and individual of minority faction of the Republican Party come forward with dictates of what will and will not be acceptable? Their willingness to approach issues that are in need of solution from a bipartisan perspective is totally lacking. They fail to understand that their behavior conditions the other side to resist their proposals as strongly as possible and tend to be a model of behavior for the other side to emulate when the shoe is on the other foot. We all realize that the Democrats have behaved badly in the past as well, however, I was hoping that with the well known desires of the “people” in our latest polls, we may have gotten beyond those kind of positions. My hope for the future is for their constituents to recognize who they are and throw them out of office at the next opportunity.
hillski999 (New Jersey)
I am curious. Why is protecting our borders hard line? Serious. Very serious. Aren't we a sovereign nation. Don't we have a large opioid addiction problem? Aren't most of the drugs crossing over our southern border? Aren't people ignoring our laws and entering our country illegally? Should we the citizen have a say in who is to come here and why? This is hard line? Really? Seems like common sense to me. Why it is the "common sense" approach that Progressives always laud
Billseng (Atlanta)
This will kill the agricultural industry in Georgia. Who do these folks think pick the crops? Sonny Purdue, former governor of Georgia and now Trump’s Agriculture Secretary has to know how this will harm his old stomping grounds. Is he too scared to stand up for agricultural interests? Have any of these people ever heard of unintended consequences? If nothing else, we can be sure that “compassionate conservatism” is as dead as the rotting plants farmers will see in the fields this coming harvest season.
Margo (Atlanta)
There are alternatives to hiring illegal immigrants, like paying living wages and adjusting work conditions and using guest workers.. Are you saying the guest agricultural worker program should be removed?
Jill (Pennsylvania)
Guess Trump would have to send all his employees back to their own country.
Cavilov (New Jersey)
Old, tired, not particularly wily in global competition but predominantly white. The world is leaving the US behind and the sun will quickly set on the exceptionalism of the US.
Patrick Stevens (MN)
Republican House members are being lead around by the nose by this so called "Freedom Caucus". What is "free" about putting minor illegal immigrants into detention centers? What is free about spending billions on systems that will not cure or help the immigration issues at hand? We need solutions to DACA. Not road blocks. Kids who were brought into this country as young children, and who have lived normal, law abiding lives since, ought to be granted permanent entry and a path to citizenship. It is that simple. It is the Christian thing to do.
Steve W (Ford)
Stand strong Republicans! It is the only way we will end the open borders policies that the Democrats promote by hook and by crook. The overwhelming majority of Americans want immigration controlled and they will support you if you stand on what Trump campaigned on and won. He supported all these policies and he won! It would be icing on the cake if we could also end the anchor baby, birthright citizenship loophole to stop the ridiculous situation we are in where pregnant women from around the world know they just have to make it across the border and she ensures that she and her extended family will be here forever. The Democrats are right about one thing, our immigration system is broken but they, and the open borders advocates, broke it!
sharon (worcester county, ma)
Steve- Another clueless, uninformed comment from the right. The "anchor" baby "birthright" is written into our Constitution per the 14th amendment. trump doesn't have the power, yet, to change the Constitution without 2/3 vote by the house and senate to alter or rescind an amendment. God help us all if he is EVER granted this power.
Joe Davison (Utah)
This bill will not come close to passing, and doesn’t even stem from GOP congressional leaders. It’s a fantasy of extreme anti-immigration conservative congressmen. And thank goodness for that.
Andreas (NYC)
Much of the growth differential the US had seen vs Europe was due to the influx of working age immigrants. Killing off this inflow will reduce growth, imbalance any social services and make us all poorer. Fascinating how a party has become tied to populist dogmas that go against everything it used to stand for.
IT Gal (Chicago)
It's a question of which personality is in charge when he is speaking or tweeting.
Paul Wortman (East Setauket, NY)
OMG! They don't even want the wall!! It looks as if the House Republicans have fallen into the trap of being the ones who'll be responsible for what increasingly looks like a government shutdown next week. Hopefully, they'll be willing to negotiate, but that has not been their position in the past. And just where is Speaker Paul Ryan on this?
Erich (VT)
At some point, the remaining moderates in the GOP and Democratic parties will come together to get things done together, and these mouth breathers will be sequestered in their little hate filled world by themselves.
M.i. Estner (Wayland, MA)
I just wonder from where the ancestors of the conservative immigration hardliners came.
greg (upstate new york)
I assume they came from another galaxy where Ayn Rand and her species came from.
Eimar Barr (Pound Ridge, New York 10576)
Many of them came from Ireland. Forced out by poverty and the oppressive British regime they sought a new life for themselves and their families in America. The “Ryans”, the “McConnels” and the “Pences” and all the other Irish came in their millions to this country. It’s sad that their descendants are so heartless to those who now seek a new life here.
USDLinNL (Land of the Dutch)
On her father's side my wife is a direct descendant of one of the Mayflower's leaders. On her mother's side she's a descendant from Mary Queen of Scots and a member of a Scottish clan as well as a descendant of Austrian protestants who arrived in Savannah, Georgia in 1650 together with some of the first Jews to arrive in the U.S.. Both groups fled the catholic monarchy. Her ancestors fought in the Revolutionary war and against one another in the Civil War. Her father was in the Pacific theater during WW2, All of the above is documented. As far as she's concerned both Trump and Bannon are new immigrants who might as well get their butts back to where they came from.
ChristineMcM (Massachusetts)
If Congress couldn't pass immigration reform the last time they tried under President Obama, the chances of bipartisanship on this issue are nil. It will be another "my way or the highway" by hardliners, and the president, who clearly understands nothing about the minutiae of policy and acronyms as demonstrated by his double-speak and stunning reversals on Tuesday, will sign "anything," Hardliners know it. Which is why instead of sane, humane immigration policy based on the premise that immigration is good for the country as it has been every since our nation's founding, all we're going to get are policies that hurt people. Democrats must be careful in the minefield, and not issue Rubicon statements that will backfire. They should fight the president on the issues, yes, but in the end, show voters which party is responsible--not demagogic-- on immigration.
Kathy Lollock (Santa Rosa, CA)
Exactly. Democrats should not wimp out in any way, and stay firm in defending immigrants. Although the issue is different, follow Feinstein's lead and grow a spine. And you are right, hardliners know this fool of a president well. As do we...he is all double-talk, but within his dark soul, he is nothing more than a bigot and a racist.
Margo (Atlanta)
The failed SB744 was not a true immigration bill in that it did not require enforcing our borders, did not provide for modern visa tracking, allowed for huge increases in the badly abused H1b visas and did nothing effective to resolve the huge illegal immigration issue (but may have actually encouraged border surges). If you were to check, every immigration initiative proposed by Obama had those clauses that allowed huge increases in the badly abused, little audited H1b visas. The less said about how "glorious" that bad SB744 would have been, the better. It was NOT a good bill for Americans and not good for the country. It deserved to die.
John Stanton (USA)
Not if they make a deal....you take DACA and we build a wall and extremely vet and stop H1B1 ripoffs of US employees,,,,,,,,
Marie (Boston)
Remember all the way back to a couple of days ago when Trump was saying how smart he was and his defenders were telling us he wasn't stupid and we are just not good enough to see his brilliance? The meeting on immigration with Trump when he didn't know what a clean bill was and that he wasn't able maintain a conversation shows that yes, at least in what we expect of a President, he is stupid. And with that what can we expect from any sort of immigration reform done during his term?
Jim Muncy (Crazy, Florida)
Well, yeah, but ... uh ... how bout his golf game? And, hey, what's up with this weather anyway, huh?
Hammadit (Atlanta)
Democrats need to move very carefully here, the Republicans are very good at seizing emotional issues and using them to beat the democrats every time. Dems need to keep an eye on 2018 elections, that’s the most important, no knee-jerk reaction please think strategically.
Vin (Atlanta )
Endgame is to label Democrats as party for illegal aliens and convince Americans same
Midwest Josh (Four days from Saginaw)
So, don’t do what’s best for the country, what most Americans and legal immigrants actually want. Just focus on winning the 2018 midterms. Good strategy.
Greg Jones (Cranston, Rhode Island)
Right we need to avoid race hate initiatives like this and keep in mind that it is a deserve America, and not this ethno nationalist hate, that wins us elections.
Al (Idaho)
Hard-line, really? You mean our immigration laws might actually be enforced and start to resemble most other countries on earth, although we will continue to have the most generous and welcoming immigration system anywhere. It's this kind of thinking and reporting that has turned so many former liberals and progressives against the democrats (and publications like the nyts) and their complete disregard for our laws, history of reasonable immigration policies and the future of the country in favor of one of mass immigration and all the problems that accompany our exploding population (doubling in a little over 50 years).
greg (upstate new york)
"...we will continue to have the most generous and welcoming immigration system anywhere." Really have you listened to what nativists like General Kelly and Trump have said? Am I mistaken in thinking I read that total immigration into our country will be held at 5,000 per year?
Kosher Dill (In a pickle)
This country was founded to have generous immigration policies. That's what we ARE. Most of us don't want that to change. Btw what native american tribe or nation do YOU descend from, sir?
JP (CT)
Not many countries have 12,000 miles of border, and you might want to look at the comparative factors of post-war expansion, the baby boom, legal and illegal immigration when you talk about the population doubling. Just out of curiosity, which native tribe do you belong to?
Steve (Long Island)
Good. Mitch "taking control" as Trump ordered. Next step is to abolish the filibuster. Ram immigration reform and the Wall right down democrat throats. That was on the ballot. Elections have consequences. Sorry.
faceless critic (new joisey)
@Steve: "Elections have consequences." Right. They do. Just wait until 2018, buddy.
Lazza May (London)
Even if 'immigration reform' in a meaningful sense had been on the ballot (which it wasn't) and been approved by a majority of those voting (again, which it wasn't), what do you think it should have comprised of or would you be satisfied with whatever reform is decreed by your dear leader?
greg (upstate new york)
See you November 2018 pilgrim. When the pendulum swings be sure to smile when it's your throat that is hurting.
Suzanne Moniz (Providence)
The Republicans made a literal show out of bipartisanship; the way they treat legislating is shameful in a democracy. They have waffled between creating a draconian hard-right society or obstructing any meaningful progress. They have obstructed Democrats from carrying out their Constitutional responsibilities. To believe in democracy and economic populism in the current atmosphere is a trick of mental gymnastics that only the fully duped could accomplish.
njglea (Seattle)
The International Mafia and their republican operatives in OUR governments at all levels have no shame. This is THEIR game plan.
James Mazzarella (Phnom Penh)
Gotta love Trump and his GOP crew. If you don't like something that they say, just wait a day or two, it'll change.
Ken Sayers (Atlanta, GA)
No, we don't gotta love Trump.
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